Cutler Ranked as 17th Best NFL QB...............

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by soulman, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    I agree that some of this is unfair. I haven't seen the entire list but I assume guys like Matt Ryan are ranked above him. Guys like him (and stafford) have the adverse effect. Overated and beloved by the media. A debate I always have with my buddy who is a diehard Falcons fan. If Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler were swapped from the time Jay got to Chi I don't think Ryan would have made it through the first 3 years. Would have probably been crucified by the fans and media and likely ran out after the playoff drought.

    But for now I don't think Cuter should be ranked below 12. Like I said I haven't seen the list but IMO off the top of my head I would say that.....

    Rodgers
    Manning
    Brady
    Breese
    Newton
    Kaep
    Other Manning
    Wilson
    Luck
    Big Ben
    Flacco


    .......are better, but unless I forgot a few I'm not sure that you can make much argument that ANYONE else is above Cutler. IMO Big Ben and Flacco are serious stretches but without them hes a top 10 qb.
  2. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Past of the problem is that some of these guys are still living on laurels earned a few years ago like Eil and Big Ben and others like Kaepernick and Newton still haven't earned their stripes in anywhere near as tough an environment as Cutler has been playing in. And one guy, Flacco, is only there because he won a SB. Overall I don't see him as better than Cutler.

    Anyway this stuff is always so subjective that once you get past those top four where the rest fit is debatable and all this article did was prove that NFL honchos are just as biased as fans. There's always way too much weight put on what was and seldom enough on the here and now unless you're Josh McCown. Then immediately Cutler hater's will anoint him as the second coming of Christ in the form of Sid Luckman.
  3. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    Yeah, exactly last year at this time the radio guys were harping on Josh. "Do you really want Josh as your backup if Jay goes down?"(with condescending voice added) I was like yes and here's why..but no one gives us a platform to spew our thoughts so most if not all of this just crap talk anyway.
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  4. a_miljan

    a_miljan Veteran

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    Jay showed extremely little here and no wonder they have him ranked that low. So far, hes about there, maybe around 10-15 place, and that is the only truth, we'll see where he will be next year
  5. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    How much has Tony Romo showed in Dallas lately or Matt Ryan in Atlanta and Eli Manning in NY? I get they're reasoning behind the ranking but when it comes down to tools Cutler's are as good or better than any of those three.

    You know Ditka actually had it right. QB's get far too much credit for wins and far too little forgiveness for losses. Under Lovie and JA they never gave him the tools he needed and last year when the offense finally stepped up the D went into the shitter.

    I don't see any of that being something chargeable to Cutler and yet it seems that's what's happening. Jay didn't go out and lose games we just plain old got beat. The funny thing is they keep talking about things that were and aren't any longer like some of the issues with his mechanics.

    Let's face it these guys pay little more attention to Jay Cutler and his game then I do to teams I don't follow. So this is all simply the impression Cutler has left with these guys and that's good because I'd love to have teams back on their heels when we show up. Teams that still believe that no matter what we do Cutler will find a way to lose the game. This is not the same offense they faced when Lovie was around and I can't wait until they show it again this year.
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  6. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I agree. I'm also beginning to believe that Trestman's offense doesn't require a rocket-arm QB as much as it requires a QB who makes smart decisions with the ball. This has been Cutler's struggle in the past. He can fall apart and make multiple bad decisions in key games. He showed last year that he can do amazing things in the 4th quarter. But in Trestman's offense it's probably more important to have a guy who doesn't need heroics in the 4th quarter, because he plays decent football in EVERY quarter. This offense that Trestman has installed here in Chicago needs a QB who is a grinder who makes very few stupid decisions with the ball.

    Cutler can be a great QB for us, but he needs to take another step this year and show that he can be a smart QB who shows up all four quarters of the game and can protect the football - and staying healthy would be nice too.
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  7. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Jay is always gonna be a bit of a gunslinger but even with that he needs to be a more consistent gunslinger and keep learning to take what the defense is giving. With the talent he's got he won't need to challenge as much any longer which should result on more yds, ,more tds, and less picks. I have faith he's turned the corner on bad Jay.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
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  8. Seqq34

    Seqq34 Veteran

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    Cutler vs Favre...look at the numbers...

    It's uncanny how similar their numbers are...td/int ratio, Qb rating, Yds/game, Comp%, etc, etc...

    Both gun-slingers with amazing arms...only difference is the state of the organizations during their time in each organization...and games won ratio which directly relates to the previous..

    Favre had 4 OC's over his entire career with weapons all over...

    Cutler has had 4 OC's over the last 5 years, and only the last year has he started to gain weapons on the offensive side...

    Yet one is considered HOF and the other mediocre....Hopefully Trestman and Emery can turn Cutler's career into a resemblance of Elway's career, where the best years come at the end...
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  9. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Those are good points, and Jay does have some comparable stats with Favre. I just wish he had stats closer to Aaron Rodgers. Favre wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but had a big arm like Jay. Rodgers on the other hand has a high football IQ to go with his arm. This is what I hope we begin to see with Jay. Better decisions. Play a full 4 quarters. Play better against the better teams. And if he wants to show something in common with Favre, then maybe show some of that Favre durability. Cutler hasn't completed a season since 2009. Favre was an iron man durability-wise.

    Aaron Rodgers:
    Career QB Rating = 104.9
    Career ints = 52
    Career int %: 1.8

    Jay Cutler:
    Career QB Rating = 84.6
    Career ints = 112
    Career int %: 3.4

    Brett Favre:
    Career QB Rating = 86.0
    Career ints % = 3.3
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  10. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I agree 100%.
    I'm happy we have Cutler. I still believe we can have good success with him now that he is surrounded by a wealth of talent. But my thinking is that when that day comes (whenever) that we move to our next franchise QB, I'm thinking that a "gunslinger" is probably not the best fit for the offense Trestman is trying to run here in Chicago. I'm not trying to knock Jay. Jay has a lot of talent, and he's certainly better than many of the starting QB's in the league. But Trestman's version-2.0 franchise QB, will probably not be a "gunslinger" type......at least that's my thought on it.
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  11. Seqq34

    Seqq34 Veteran

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    I couldn't agree more JABF...
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  12. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Maybe not especially if it's Fales but if it's Clausen he'll at least have half a gunslinger on his hands. Hey gunslingers win SBs too. Elway and Favre proved that. I'm just curious to see what the final product will be.

    If Trestman is that good at being a maker of NFL QBs from now on then he should be able to take anyone with brains and talent and mold his system around that guys strengths. I believe that's exactly what he's doing with Cutler because they both talk about it all the time and so do Cavanaugh and Kromer. They keep adding more of what Jay does well and subtracting what he doesn't. Kind of an "out with the bad" and "in with the good".

    Contrast that to how Martz insisted on doing things and it's a whole lot easier to see why this is working and Martz's approach didn't.

    Trestman is gonna use whatever parts of his plan work with Jay but that doesn't mean that something he may have discarded here won't work with a different type of QB. I think we saw the reality of that when McCown came in last year. They weren't running the exact plays the exact same way. The routes changed a bit and so did the timing.

    If Trestman's system really is as QB friendly as advertised he should be able to adapt it enough that he can make a decent starting QB out of anyone who has the basic skills for it and he should also be able to keep turning out decent #2 and #3 guys that same way. JMHO
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  13. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I agree with all of your post Soul, but I especially agree with the above part. The "key" in a Trestman system is having a high football IQ. That's what drives it all. Sure you need a talent level also. But it's useless unless you can make great decisions with the ball. It's "Job One" in a system like we have.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  14. omc1969

    omc1969 Veteran

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    I quit caring what the "Eastern Sports Promotion Network" thinks decades ago.
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  15. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    different era's, the more the game moves in favor of the O, the less gun slingers will be capable of winning. In today's NFL you cannot afford to turn the ball over b/c of how easy it is to move the ball and score.

    As for his ranking, it's about correct, he's not in that 2nd teir of qb's, and they are all pretty inter changeable(12-15-17). Right now Cutler's biggest problem is his inability to stay healthy for 16 games, and the fact that he's apt to turn the ball over way to many times(int/fumble) it goes back to the first thing I said, in today's NFL you cannot do that and win, turn overs are more costly then ever and the only way Cutler helps this team win in the playoffs and gets to a SB is for him to be smarter w/protecting the ball.
  16. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    For what it's worth, I trended out Jay's 2013 stats for a full 16-game season & posted it on the front page here:

    http://www.dabears.com/threads/cutlers-2013-stats-if-trended-for-a-full-16-game-season.3652/

    I also posted the same stats for some of the other better QB's in the NFL for comparison. Finally, I trended out Josh McCown's stats for a full 16-game season -- just as I did with Jay. I don't know if the end result is meaningful in any way. I was just curious myself as to how it would have played out if Jay had been healthy for a full season. I thought others might be as curious as I was.
  17. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I took a look and commented on it there. That was nice work. It tends to confirm the idea that Trestman does run an offense that he can plug even a QB of modest talent into and still have production as long as that guy takes the time to understand it.

    Looking back at last year if I had to make a comment defining the differences between Cutler's numbers and McCown's is that McCown got his more with his head whereas Cutler's were obtained by his arm.

    IMHO McCown is never gonna get any better than he was last year. That was his pinnacle of success. For Cutler on the other hand that was just an opener because once he digests it all as well as McCown obviously did with his talent he could do far more.

    Looking at those numbers it's pretty easy to see that Jay isn't that far off from the best except in his tendency to challenge coverages in ways he probably shouldn't. Take away half those pick and add them as TD and he's a top 5 QB. That's what he needs to work on.
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  18. yttocs

    yttocs Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    I still think JC is better then some on the list. Not top tier, yet. But it seem his Denver days are not taken into account, yet his bad team as a Bear is all that's taken, ( plus Pouty Face). Yet others still are given the golden years they had but have gotton to for a few years. This to me is the true test to where JC is. Stay heathy.
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  19. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Anyone with brains? What about Blane Gabbert. He scored a 42 on the Wonderlic.
  20. 4th and 26

    4th and 26 George Halas Staff Member

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    What is Jays record vs the Packers?


    He is lucky to be listed as 17th.
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