ESPN Camp Confidential: Bears

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by riczaj01, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    Anyone that doesn't understand that certain positions, including DE, picked round 1 should contribute year one on more then a part time basis doesn't understand the draft very well.

    Anyone that is going to hold an inj during a NFL game against any rookie or any other player, would you have held the same against Shea, or Cutler or Forte or Marshal? You didn't hold it against Carimi, some of you are still pissed he's not a Bear. Fact is DeCastro missed the first several mo's and still came back and got to start for his team, Shea isn't even a starter right now in year 2 and if Izzy was here he'd again be the 3rd man in that rotation. So anyone sitting in here debating the value of a Starting G in the NFL for a guy in a battle of a starting DE job is fooling themselves w/those Bear colored glasses. Shea's production was the equivalent of the amount of games DeCastro played in, and lest we not forget he was drafted by Emery to be a Day 1 3 down starting DE...year 2 and he's still not that.

    Long right now is still in a battle w/Brown a UDFA that was expected to be, at best a 3rd round pick. He might well end up being the starter, but we'll have to see if that's b/c Emery cannot afford to have another mid 1st pick playing backup or if he's actually good enough to be playing. There's also the distinct chance that he's not starting and it will again be another mid first let down. 19th picked G's and DE's should be starting and giving positive contributions day 1. Emery's going to be, at best, .500 this year.
     
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  2. lazar

    lazar Rookie

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    The purpuse of the draft is to bring quality players, but you can't make judgements one way or another after one year. You shouldn't have to wait for their 3rd or 4th year but for 2nd you certainly should. There are plenty players who play well right away, but there are also those who play well their first year and then by the 3rd they are out of the league. You shold never judge a player after his first year no matter how he played becouse often it doesn't tell you what he's future will be like. And also lets remember that you don't look for quick fixes in the draft, you plan ahead and pick players that will hopefully be great players down the road. As for Emery... he is doing great thing. Right now I don't know if he has an eye for talent, for that we will know more after this season. But what I do now is that he does have a right vision of this team and what needed to be done so that Bears can be successful. Angelo didn't have that. With that said I don't agree with this view that both he and Lovie were terrible. They were good actually, but they had this huge hole in their vision of what football should be and it buried them. Defense, running the ball, special teams was their formula and they stick to it even when they traded for Cutler. Look around at all those teams who either drafted or traded for qb, what was the plan there? Well, qb immediately become the focus and center of those teams that's for sure. And that's the way it should be done. What happened with the Bears? Well they went about their business like nothing happened. Look how much changes the offense took in two offseasons since Emery came and hoe little was done 3 years with Angelo. So that's way you should be happy with Emery. He has the right vision, doesn't ignore any position, and whatever weakness Bears have he attacked it, something that Angelo dodn't do. Of course, if the players drafted are busts then everything else won't matter but right now no one can know how good or bad those players are.
     
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  3. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Ric, I'm with you on the Shea pick. He was a 2nd round worthy player we over-drafted who isn't even a good fit for our current D system. There were better choices. Point taken. Might have been a different story if our base D was a 3-4 and we were short an OLB. I didn't like the Long pick either at first (if you recall, I wanted Eifert when our number came up and he was still there...he went 2 picks later). But I'm going to withhold judgment on that until he's had a season under his belt to look at.

    I do think he will end up starting by the time week 1 rolls around.
    I do think he has exceptional athletic ability that is raw even by rookie standards so coaching (Kromer) is key here.
    I do think he will finish the year a much better player than he starts it.
    And I do think--call me crazy if you want--that he's a future T down the road and that's was part of the motivation.
    JMO
     
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  4. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    MP, I agree, but my point in the original post is:

    Decastro/Rhodes or Floyd > Shea/Long. I agree w/you also that Shea is the weaker link in that grouping but it doesn't change the fact that it's a weaker coupling. And b/c Emery constantly reaches he creates more reason to reach the next year, it's exponential and it's what got JA in trouble and put weaker players on the field.

    Long might well start, but I'll wait to see how he plays in regular season games to decide for certain. I did the same w/Shea, I waited to see in reg season games, and I wasn't wrong. From what Trestie has stated he might well run a 6 man rotation at OL, I would assume that means Brown and Long, but it might well mean Webb/Scott. A lot of theories from the analysts is that Brown is going to be the swing G this year, I would assume to take over LG next year.

    I really don't think they plan on moving Long to T though, that's what everyone has said, except from anyone in the Bears, then again Emery said Shea was a 3 down DE....
     
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  5. Mr. Deliverance

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    What exactly don't you understand about there being many Bears fans that know Cutler sucks and he is not the guy? You are backing a turd. Do you realize that you sound like the Grossman and Tebow groupies?
     
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  6. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I hear ya. And I agree that DeCastro was highest rated player on the board and he was in a position of need. He should have been the pick. There was no way to know that he'd have a PS ACL tear. To my knowledge he hadn't had injury concerns at Stanford.

    Not giving Emery a pass here (he's the boss and makes the final call) but I think the prior coaching regime had a lot to do with the Shea pick. Tice kept offering false assurances on Carimi and the OL in general ("better schemes", more "pixie dust") and I think Lovie pushed hard for a DE. Remember, at that time we had 2 vet DEs getting up there--Pep and Izz--and Woot had been a big disappointment thus far with 2 injury plagued seasons. We definitely were thin on paper there as no one could have known that Woot would come on so strong and stay healthy like he did in 2012. Just a guess, but I see at a reasonable conspiracy theory.

    Way too soon to condemn the Long pick though, even if I wasn't a fan of it at first glance. Since Kromer has turned mid and late rounders into pro bowl OLmen before several times, I gotta have confidence that he can hone Long into a stellar player. The dude is physically and athletically impressive and seems to have a strong work ethic too (hello, J'Marcus?). He lacks experience and technique. That is Kromer's job.

    Yeah, he's a G for now as that's a less demanding position to learn at first. But a guy with his body style, agility, and feet has the tools to play T down the road should the need arise. And it tends to arise. We both know that quality Ts are harder to come by than quality Gs. The fact that the team hasn't talked about that off-in-the-future-possibility means nothing right now. We may need a new RT as soon as next season.
     
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  7. lazar

    lazar Rookie

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    You do realize that you didn't respond with an actual argument on anything that I wrote. I'm not backing anyone, and you would know that if you actually used you're brain while you read. Reading without thinking is useless, try it sometimes. I don't have an agenda here, I'm here to discuss with arguments knowing that I could be wrong. You are here to put your dogma in the open and to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. Grupies as I see it are people who are blinded by something, be it love or hate and with them you can't really have a normal conversation. It's seems to me that you belong there and that's why you know the groupie sound. You've been part of that scene for years.
     
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  8. Mr. Deliverance

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    Yo I'm not arguing with a simpleton that dismisses Cutler's ACTUAL performance against the good teams, including the Packers. Its a waste of time arguing points with low functioning Bears fans that can't defend Cutler's record against those teams.
     
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  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    He's a Bear now so as long as he's playing, and at a high level I'm fine w/it, T, G, C, DE don't care just get him on the field and contribute w/a quality play.
     
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  10. JPosh2012

    JPosh2012 Pro-Bowler

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    Thing thing we need to remember about this part draft was that A LOT of teams wanted to tradedowna nd not a lot wanted to trade up so it makes it hard when the supply to trade up is more than demand. Remember the Raiders for moving down nine picks only got a 2nd round when it usually would net a lot more (3->12)

    With how poor this past QB was I think Cutler would be a lot better than the crap QB's in last year's draft.

    Would you have been okay with Chandler Jones if we took him instead of Shea?
     
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