Greg Gabriel; Whose Stock is on the Rise?........

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by soulman, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Pro days notebook
    Whose stock is on the rise this week? Greg Gabriel
    April 05, 2014

    With the pro day schedule winding down, this will be our next to last update. After this week, we have Georgia, LSU, Penn State and Maryland to go.

    South Carolina
    The big workout this week was of course South Carolina, with Jadeveon Clowney workout out for a huge contingent of scouts and coaches. Clowney looked the part as he went through positional drills. He was in excellent shape and showed the athleticism that will make him a top three pick. Many (including me) believe that he will be the first pick in this year’s draft.

    Defensive tackle Kelce Quarles also looked good. He ran the 40 in 5.03 and showed good change of direction and body control. There were reports that he looked out of shape, but the scouts I talked to all agreed that Quarles had a strong day. I see him going in the second round.

    Receiver also had a strong day. While he lacks great size, he is both quick and fast with excellent hands. He too, could go as high as the second round.

    Tennessee
    Running back Rajion Neal ran the 40 in 4.57, as well as leaping 9’11" in the long jump and 38” in the vertical jump. His 28 reps in the bench were impressive. On the field, he showed very good quickness and caught the ball very well. Neal could go as high as the fifth round, but most likely, will get drafted in the sixth.

    Tennessee has a number of offensive linemen, and all looked good doing drills for the offensive line coaches. The highest rated lineman are tackles Antonio Richardson and Ja’Wuan James.

    Defensive tackle Dan McCullers improved his 40 time to 5.32, but he still has marginal change of direction. Scouts have mixed opinions as to his value. I have heard as high as the fourth round and as low as the seventh.

    Georgia Tech
    The player scouts wanted to see is linebacker/defensive end Jeremiah Attaochu.(gesundheit) He was unable to work at the combine but had a strong showing at his pro day. He ran a 4.59 at 249 pounds as well as 37.5” vertical jump and a 9’3 long jump. His three-cone was also an impressive 7.28. I see Jeremiah getting drafted in the second round.

    Miami
    Scouts wanted to see offensive linemen Seantrel Henderson and Brandon Linder. Linder, who has position versatility having started games at both guard and tackle, looked very good working for the coaches. Conversely, Henderson disappointed, as he was not able to finish the workout. His agent says he was suffering from dehydration. No matter what the cause, it turned off scouts and coaches. There is no excuse for dehydrating or being out of shape. This was a chance for him to impress and he didn’t.

    Washington
    Tight end Austin Seferian-Jenkins was unable to work out due to a stress fracture in his foot. He will not be healed by draft day so clubs will base their entire opinion on tape evaluation. The tape is good and Seferian-Jenkins should go in the second round.

    Running back Bishop Sankey stood pat on his combine numbers, but his position work was very impressive. He has great hands and showed he can adjust to the ball. He will be the first or second back taken in this draft.
  2. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Is Quarles the "next man" up if we don't end up taking Donald?
  3. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Yes, probably so.

    Let's be clear for those "we need a safety in the 1st" crowd. Quarles is a solid prospect. But don't kid yourself into believing that he's in the same class as Donald, he is definitely not. His college production was less (playing with Clowney who undoubtedly drew most of the OL's attention) and he ran a full 4 tenths slower. Yeah, is a DT's 40 time all that important? Probably not most often, unless he's capable of running down a scrambling QB (Kap) or a RB (Lacy) trying to turn the corner on a sweep. Then it might just matter. Quarles' time was pedestrian. Donald's was freakishly amazing at sub-4.7 for a ~ 290lb man.

    Gimme the FREAK who bested every top prospect at the Senior Bowl and is the consensus #1 at his specific position which we just happen to need big time. No brainer if he's there at 14. Don't over think it, Phil. It's not complicated here.
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  4. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    Quarles had 9.5 QB sacks last yr. As a sidenote Clowney had 3. Quarles does not have Donald 4.7 speed but he also does not have short stumpy arms. I am not trying to restart the battle here but I have a serious question?

    If Quarles and Donald were going against K. Long I see Long winning the battle. But who do you think would do best between Quarles and Donald against Long and why? I am pretty sure you will say Donald so how would he beat K Long. and be any more effective than Quarles. Through W. Sutton in there 2 if you would.
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  5. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I don't know where you ever read that but you've continued to make that statement when it's not true so I'm calling you on it. His arm length is proportionate to his size. Take a look at the pic of him I posted. Those are not alligator arms, sorry. The difference in height between Donald and Quarles is 3" and yet the difference in their arm length is roughly 1/2". Take out a ruler and measure that. It's not very much is it? So Quarles has long arms and yet a 3" shorter Donald with just 1/2" inch less arm length has short arms? No I don't think so. You must have been reading about Sutton or Jernigan and got confused. It's Sutton whose arms are 2" shorter than Quarles and Jernigan's are 1 1/2" shorter. Not Donald's.

    How would Donald best Long? By staying low and maintaining leverage and also by his quickness and ability to shoot the gap. He's quicker off the snap then Quarles. Now read the section about Quarles weaknesses. He gets too upright at the snap which would automatically limit his burst and since he plays taller he loses leverage instead of gaining it so if he can't overcome his man with raw strength he's done for and few DTs would best Long on raw strength alone. There have also been questions about his conditioning and just how much he benefitted from playing with Clowney and I would say a lot.

    I don't either of these guys are gonna outmuscle Long but the guy who plays lower has more of an opportunity to leverage his strength and as it stands Donald is already the stronger of the two based on the bench reps. Also the guy whose quicker off the snap would have an advantage and that again would be Donald. Anyway you want to slice it Donald is faster, stronger, quicker off the snap, better conditioned, has a better motor, and is the superior player of the two. That's why he's rated as the top pure DT on the board and Quarles isn't. That doesn't make Quarles bad but he's simply not as good as Donald in any way. Even in productivity Donald has him beat.

    If we pass on both Donald and Quarles then Sutton comes into play or possibly Caraun Reid down in the 3rd or 4th rounds.



    Aaron Donald
    DT Pittsburgh
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Grade
    5.35?
    • 4.68 SEC
      Top Performer
    • 35 REPS
      Top Performer
    • 32.0 INCH
      Top Performer
    • 116.0 INCH
      Top Performer
    • 7.11 SEC
      Top Performer
    • 4.39 SEC
      Top Performer
    Blue Star = Top Performer
    • 6'1" Height
    • 32 5/8" Arm Length
    • 285LBS. Weight
    • 9 7/8" Hands
    Overview
    2013: First-team All-American and first-team All-ACC selection. Was Outland Trophy, Chuck Bednarik AWard and Bronko Nagurski Award winner. 2012: First-team All-Big East selection. Led team with 5.5 sacks and 18.5 tackles for loss. 2011: Second-team All-Big East after playing in all 13 games and making five starts. 2010: Played in all 13 games. Led the team with 11 sacks.

    Analysis
    Strengths
    Quick off the snap. Natural leverage. Gets under pads and into gaps. Good foot athlete -- redirects well and can work the edges and loop and stunt. Flexible enough to zone drop in short area. Plays with awareness and consistently locates the ball. Closes hard and fast. Keeps working to the ball. Disruptive penetrating ability. Outstanding career production -- 63 TFL and 27.5 sacks the last three seasons. Tough and competitive. Team captain with terrific personal and football character.

    Weaknesses
    Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out. Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power. Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams. Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers. Not a two-gap player. Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside.

    Bottom Line
    Short, scrappy, instinctive, highly productive defensive lineman who does not look the part, but inspires confidence he can be an exception to the rule. Is the type you root for and has the quickness, athleticism and motor to earn a spot as a rotational three-technique in a fast-flowing 4-3 scheme.

    -Nolan Nawrocki

    [​IMG]

    Kelcy Quarles
    DT South Carolina
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Grade
    5.35?
    • 5.03 SEC
      Top Performer
    • 27 REPS
      Top Performer
    • 23.5 INCH
      Top Performer
    • 102.0 INCH
      Top Performer
    • 6'4" Height
    • 33 1/4" Arm Length
    • 297LBS. Weight
    • 9 3/8" Hands
    Overview
    2013: First-team All-American pick and first-team All-SEC selection. 2012: Played in and started 11 games. Missed two games due to a shoulder injury. 2011: Played in 11 games and started six. 2010: Attended Fork Union Military Academy.

    Analysis
    Strengths
    Good size and initial quickness. Long arms and strong upper body -- can press and extend to create operating space. Flashes the ability to walk guards back. Is fairly light on his feet and shows nice closing burst to the quarterback. Good pursuit effort when his battery is charged. Heavy tackler. Excellent sack production, particularly for an interior defender -- 9.5 sacks ranked second nationally among defensive tackles.

    Weaknesses
    Gets upright off the snap. Lets his pads rise and gets controlled or washed. Chewed up by double teams. Does not generate powerful hand violence. Could stand to get in better shape and improve his stamina. Production was inflated -- had plays flushed to him, benefiting from attention paid to Jadeveon Clowney.

    Bottom Line
    Thickly built, long-armed, talented defensive tackle who was not as consistently dominant as his numbers or accolades suggest. Has quickness, strength and enough pass-rush ability to develop into a rotational three-technique in the pros, but could have benefited from another year of SEC competition.

    -Nolan Nawrocki
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  6. butka

    butka Rookie

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    Ok, I'll play your hypothetical game... how does Donald do a better job? He gets off the ball a hell of a lot quicker than Quarles and gets into Long's body before Long can get a good clean punch. Arm length has gotten overhyped from the Mike Mayock's of the world in recent years. What's even funnier is that you're citing a matchup with Kyle Long, who was knocked for his arm length going into last draft. Aside from all of that, it's ~1/2" of arm length (which Soul mentioned already), which isn't very much of a difference. Strange that you call them short and stumpy... haha. Just go ahead and say you don't like Donald because you're looking for any angle to put the guy down. No one is going to hate you. But honestly, I don't know how you can watch these two play and say they're that close. There's a good dropoff from Donald to Quarles when it comes to pass rushing, in my opinion.
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  7. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    That's a solid opinion from someone who has played and coached and more concise as well. Wish I was better at that. Old habits die hard.

    This is pretty much what I've been trying to say regarding the DTs and the Safeties and CBs. There's really no less of a drop between a kid like Donald vs Quarles than their is with Dix vs Ward or Pryor vs Bucannon, Gilbert or Dennard vs Fuller. It's similar. So either you take the top guy or settle for one whose a notch or two below. So it all comes down to whose still on the board at #14, what position do you value highest and whose the BPA left on the top of your board. Some of these guy may not even be of interest to the Bears for whatever reason.
  8. butka

    butka Rookie

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    Agreed on the BPA, Soul. I like Donald a lot, but if the Bears don't want to grab him, I'm not going to cry over it. In my opinion, he's in his own class as a pass rusher amongst DTs in this draft, but he's not some rare talent like Clowney. There will be other DTs with similar abilities to Donald down the road. There's other defensive players I'd be happy with at 14 as well. Dix and Gilbert, to name a couple. So if they feel like they would rather try to develop a DT with a pick in the lower round (or even wait a year or two), so be it. They've made an attempt to address the defensive line in free agency and 3 technique is not the dire need it was before.
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  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    100% agree w/that assesment Butka. Outside of Gilbert falling, I think most of the players, from what I've read from scouts/gm's, lump the players in the mid-late rounds of the first as all prety similar. I don't think the team is going to go wrong w/any of them; but w/ the O style of the NFL now, I'd be happier w/Dix/Pryor or Gilbert to secure the longterm answer of the DB's the Bears have had.
  10. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    Not starting an argument here. I really am not it was an honest question. And yeah 1/2 to 3/4 inch doesnt seem that much

    For the record short arms is in almost every story. So I didnt make it

    Thanks.

    upload_2014-4-8_12-3-13.png
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  11. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    its not I do not like Donald I am just scared how well he translates to the NFL. I know he has been challenged at every level and come out good. If we take Donald in rd 1 I will be happy, we need a 3 tech. if we take a safety and take Quarles I will be happy also. I read alot of the scouting reports and everyone loves him with reservations.
  12. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    To be fair to BS, I don't think anyone "hates" any of the picks being talked about ,especially Donald, but I think way to many people have to high of an opnion of him. He's not going to be this unstoppable beast that is going to solidify the line for years to come. He's going to be really good, but it's not like you're getting a BJ Raji or Suh or even a Tommie Harris. Those guys are not in this draft at 14, hell they aren't in this draft at 10.
  13. dachuckster

    dachuckster Veteran SuperFan

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    Personally I am a fan of taking Donald at 14. But there have to be realistic expectations for even a very talented rookie. He will be able to contribute immediately and even be a difference maker is some situations. But by himself, he is not a one man wrecking crew. Take a good look at his play when Pitt played Florida State last fall. FSU has a solid offensive line. They doubled him almost every play and he was not a major factor. There is a youtube video of it if you search for it.
  14. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    That was the general point I was trying to make. It's not that Quarles (or Sutton or whoever else) is a bad prospect and it's not that he/they wouldn't make solid options to look at later in the draft if Donald doesn't end up becoming a Bear at 14 for whatever reason.

    I'm merely saying that Q isn't at Donald's level and that AD is the premier 1-gap 4-3 pure 3Tech in this draft. There's a substantial drop-off after Donald to the "next tier" of players in that specific position/skill-set. Again, we are talking about a SUBTYPE of DT here (that traditionally the Bears have coveted) not ALL D-lineman who happen to play on the interior.

    We don't know who will still be on the board at 14. Donald could be gone. So could Dix. [I'm using these two as the theoretical top2 realistic guys for Emery at #14 here]. If AD is there and Ha-Ha isn't, it seems like a no-brainer to me. If they are both there, I still prefer Donald but it will depend on how Phil views the comparative value of the next tier of Safeties and DTs.

    I don't know what else you could realistically ask for with AD. He plays a position of great need, that's vital to the Bears traditional scheme (we'll see if that remains true for Tucker coming up but Emery has suggested it does), has no known motor/work ethic/medical/character concerns, was a very productive player 3 years at a major college football program, blew up top competition in the Senior Bowl, and was a physical freak at the Combine. If he was a touch bigger or was a bit more scheme-versatile, I doubt he'd get out if the top-10.

    Any prospect can bust or disappoint of course no matter how promising they look to begin with. ANY OF THEM. It just looks based on what we know and what we can reasonably project, that he is a high-potential-reward pick with pretty low risk.
  15. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I think we'd all sell our soul so to speak to get both of them (AD + Dix for instance). Even Ninja-Phil can't accomplish that miracle dammit. Why can't I have everything I want?
  16. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    MP that's the real thing about it, I made the point in another thread, everyone is assuming things that MIGHT not be the case, and wanting an undersized DT is one of them. I'm not saying they don't or that Dondald wouldn't be a good fit, but only Tucker and Emery really know what they are looking for at DT.
  17. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    You're right, we don't know. All we can go by is what we have done recently and the fact that Emery did talk about the importance of the 3T position in the Bears defense this offseason. That could be stating the obvious or it could be meaningless blather.
  18. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I know you didn't but as lousy as some of these pseudo journalists are at researching stuff it's no surprise. One writes a column and the rest of the last jackasses simply parrot what some other guy said. That's how rumors get started. Don't take it wrong please. I'm not down on you about it. I just wanted to clear up the inaccuracy before it becomes an epidemic around here like so many other things do.

    I went straight to the NFL Combine measurements and that's about as official as it gets. Nawrocki's comments, I believe, are for the most part accurate and based on what info he's able to glean from scouts there and at the post season All Star games. Quite a few of the others, including one I reference frequently NFP, aren't doing nearly as well. It's a shame about NFP because they used to be much better but at least they have Greg Gabriel writing for them from a scouts perspective as opposed to the Kipers and Mayocks who have turned into little more than talking heads more concerned about creating drama and suspense than accuracy.

    I think Donald is a great fit for the Bears if they have a 3 tech DT on the top of their wish list but if not then as long as they get one of the other top guys I won't be disappointed. If they can't then I really would rather see them trade back. If you're gonna be stuck with a second of third choice I'd rather that pick be somewhere down the road where it has the proper value. What I'm hoping they don't do is draft an unsuitable player for the defense they run and once again try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

    By observing how Emery has progressed as a GM and how his scouting staffs seem to be more on target now that he's made changes I really don't have a whole lot of concern that will happen. He didn't use a shotgun during this FA period, he used a rifle and his aim all the way up to signing de la Puente has been damn good and for ME to say that you know it's true.
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