If Jay is at his ceiling, is this good enough, or should we be looking for better?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 SuperFan

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,532 / 0 / -0
    My gut feeling is that we're seeing Jay's ceiling right now. I'm thinking this is "as good as it gets" with him. And as many have accurately pointed out, he is better than the QB's we've seen around here over many years. He is gifted with loads of physical ability, but limited by decision making, especially in big games against teams like Green Bay - the teams we must beat to go to the next level.

    But is that "good enough" to satisfy you that we should go with him in future years? Or, should we try to see if Trestman can develop a guy who is even better for us? Is "good enough" truly good enough? Should we be happy we have the guy, and just let it go at that?
    • Like Like x 2
  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    19,126
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,850 / 5 / -4
    Looking for better; got 2 FT's for his ass if he cannot improve if necessary. And it's not b/c he cannot get the team to winning it's b/c the turn overs are to costly. But I don't think we've seen him at his best yet. Lets see how he plays against Det/Minny/GB, if he can have a winning record, while splitting w/GB then I think we'll be fine.
  3. shark86x

    shark86x SuperFan

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +392 / 0 / -0
    Maybe I'm just getting brainwashed by the constant attacks on him by certain posters, but I am tiring of his decision making. I understand he's hearing footsteps because of the continual pressures our line gives up, and that is ingrained in his psyche, but why throw to a double-triple teamed BM? Throw it away....

    I think if we can get decent o-line play, he may settle down and play better, but right now it's natural for him to be ducking for cover. It will take time for him to overcome that.
  4. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,565
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +774 / 2 / -0
    Well, as you say, this is a 2 part question. IF Cutler is at his ceiling.... Is there anyone here that can answer that question?

    For the sake of argument, lets say he is at his ceiling... Yes, I would be looking to upgrade. But I would not pull the trigger until I saw performance on the field. Similar to Kap in SF. They had him and thought he was good, but they did not release their starter until they were confident. In other words, there are many worse QBs than Cutler even if he does not improve. I don't want to get caught up in getting rid of him as opposed to trying to make us better at QB. The focus should be making us better, not finding a reason to dump him. So if we get better, yes, by all means, swap him out. He is no different than anyone else.

    I was hoping to get a feeling if Blanchard might be that guy, but his development just took a step back this year.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Bearstuff

    Bearstuff Yes, in the woods. Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    29,000
    Likes Received:
    576
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +616 / 2 / -1
    If this is his ceiling, then he isn't good enough, but still qualifies as the best we've had in decades.

    At least with his skill set, all things are possible. I loved Jim Miller, but he wasn't a threat for any opposing defense. We were going to run it 35-40 times and punt 8 times a game. As much as I liked Miller, I'm happier with Cutler....even with the faults. Sure he will make mistakes, but at least defenses have to respect his physical abilities. No 8+ in the box & running off the bus.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. motownbear

    motownbear derp daderp daderpidity derp Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    if this is his ceilings the excuses on why he isnt one of the upper echelon qbs in the league has to stop

    as to your question you look for another qb. Whatever Cutler does he is going to command top money cause fact is qbs are tough to come by. So would you put 100mil into the Cutler we see today? Not me. Will he get a killer deal like that? Probably. I would let him play out this year, franchise him, then draft his replacement if big IF this is indeed his ceiling
    • Like Like x 1
  7. motownbear

    motownbear derp daderp daderpidity derp Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    remember we traded for a 4000 yard plus qb that under martz controlled his interceptions

    the talent is there.............JA and Lovie did nothing absolute f-in nothing to get this offense respectable
    • Like Like x 1
  8. soulman

    soulman

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +848 / 0 / -0
    I've seen Cutler play in Denver and he's nowhere near his ceiling but if people expect that he's gonna turn into an All Pro overnight in another new offense then those who do won't be convinced that there's any other option left but to move on. There's no doubt in my mind that he can easily pass for 4500-5000 yards in this offense once the offense is formed around his strong points and it's nowhere near that yet.

    Jay Cutler wants to be the best QB in the NFL, he wants to play for the Bears, and he wants to win a championship because he knows it's the ONLY way to shut his detractors up. This guy is the most talented QB we've seen here since Sid Luckman and we have no one even close to replacing him. Why some are so anxious to be rid of him now that Trestman is here and they're finally paying attention to the offense for a change is beyond me.

    FWIW it sure looks like Emery wants to keep him around and the way it looks to me is the only hesitation is the cost. The fact that we didn't extend his deal and that he's in year one of a new offense may actually work to the Bears advantage from a dollars and cents point of view. We can probably assume that he won't break records or take the team to a SB this year like Flacco did in Baltimore. If that's the case he commands less on a long term deal or he's willing to sign for another year or two at most with a modest raise and he's still looking for the big one that comes if he does get to and win a SB.

    Guy with his arm and his mobility don't come out college every year and in order to get the Andrew Luck caliber, can't miss guy, you'd better have one of the top two picks and how likely is that to happen? Instead of hoping he fails we should be hoping this "marriage" between him and Trestman works out well and that this the beginning of a road to the SB which still may not take place until 2014 or 2015.

    If they decide not to stick it out with him Emery would be a bloody fool to just release him to FA without getting something good in the way of picks or players in return. If Cutler becomes a FA he'll have half the NFL knocking on his door and won't stay unsigned very long. Half the coaches in the NFL would have loved to have walked into the situation Trestman did with a very good QB in place and all of them would be glad to take him off our hands if we don't want him.

    Christ, look at who we have playing behind him. Josh McCown, and now Trent Green and Carson Palmer's brother!!!! Jeezus, if that's not enough to make us appreciate Cutler then it's hopeless.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,565
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +774 / 2 / -0
    Lovie was a nice guy, but truth be told, he was a train wreck for the franchise.
  10. zelezo vlk

    zelezo vlk

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Heck he played better two years ago before that thumb injury. He's good enough to win, but there are multiple things that need to be done before we see his ceiling.

    1. The line plays well enough to keep him from being hit/pressured/sacked every dropback.
    2. Better playcalling
    3. Jay needs to stop with the stupid decisions and go through all of his reads.

    If those happen (and we're already seeing some improvement), then Jay will be good enough and a dark horse for the Pro Bowl. He definitely has the weapons and arm for it.
  11. BlackDiamond

    BlackDiamond

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    10,727
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    I'm thinking you've gotta give a guy AT LEAST two years in an offense before you start thinking maybe he can't cut it. I think he's got the goods, personally. Hopefully we won't be changing offenses next year.
  12. Nakoma1

    Nakoma1

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +183 / 0 / -0
    THIS is all on the McCaskeys whatever happens with Jay

    IMO Lovie & JA should have been dumped a year sooner than they were,...

    I m giving Cutty the benny of the doubt ,..Although ,.. Im not too happy with what I have seen thus far ,... BUT it is the pre- season ,...is it vanilla ball or is the offense going to be no better in the Passing game?? At least the running game has shown signs of improvement

    Chit ,....Phil's been making hay as soon as last year with getting Marsh and drafting Ashlon ,.. There is no doubt what he was thinking at the time

    To answer your question NO he is not
  13. Xa0sG0rilla

    Xa0sG0rilla

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0
    Whether Jay is going to be the long term starter, or just the QB under center until the bears find the right someone is ultimately up to Jay. Cutler, if he gets no better than he has been in the last 2-3 years, should be the QB who sets the standard for the next bears QB. If you want to start at QB for the Bears, All you have to do is be proven better than the current QB, whomever that is.

    Didn't I say something like this back in Feb.?

    I will add that keeping jay around for a while does give the bears the chance to trade him to some cellar dweller team for a early 2nd round draft pick (or two). Which would be handy for taking some (more) of the edge off of what the Bears paid to get him.
  14. Jimmors

    Jimmors The Rhymenoceros SuperFan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2005
    Messages:
    28,529
    Likes Received:
    3,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +3,360 / 8 / -0
    People have such a short memory. Check this out:

    [​IMG]

    Few things to note here:

    1.If you notice, the 2 years he threw for the most yards was 2008 (DEN) and 2009 (CHI), and you'll ALSO note that 09 was the last season he played all 16 games. So, it would stand to reason, that if he can get a full season in again, he should put up some decent numbers.

    2.Number of sacks (purple boxes). Seriously...look at that. When he was in Denver, his OL was PHENOMENAL, less than 1 sack allowed per game.

    3.TD/INT ratio, Passer Rating. If you notice, these numbers have remained statistically similar throughout his career.

    4.Completions/Attempts. Again...under Shanahan in Denver, they were crazy for the pass, attempting 38.5 passes per GAME.

    Add up all these points, and what do you get? Simple...YES, Jay has reached his "ceiling," he is not going to be any better than he is now, he WILL throw a lot of Interceptions regardless. BUT, with a proper OL, and with an offensive guru like Trestman calling the plays, he can still put up 4,000+ yards per year and be a pro-bowl caliber QB. Most of his drop in stats (such as completion percentage, yards, sacks) can probably be attributed to poor OL while in Chicago, but the Bears are working on fixing this issue. And if Jay is not the answer, then at least we will have the OL for our future Qb.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  15. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 SuperFan

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,532 / 0 / -0
    I am confident that #1 and #2 will be fine. It's #3 that is concerning. At camp and in the first two pre-season games, he is still struggling with ints and over-using B.Marsh. This doesn't mean he can't get better. He may (as some pointed out, he has yet another offense to learn and new receivers/TE's).

    It's not hating on Jay to be worried about the picks. He's had a rough camp int-wise. I also "get it" that it's not easy to get a better QB if he has, in fact, hit his ceiling and can't beat the better teams like Green Bay. But just because it's not easy, doesn't mean it's something we should roll-over on and accept. It's like those "lovable losers" the Cubs. Some folks just laugh it all off and "accept" the mediocrity. I'm just not wired that way. I want the Bears to be able to win a super bowl or more in my remaining lifetime. Somebody always comes back saying "but not everyone can win a super bowl" and that attitude for the Bears is just not acceptable to me. Sure it's hard. But what's the point? Just settle?

    I'm not giving up on Jay, but I "see what I see" so far. I'm getting that creepy feeling in my gut that THIS may be pretty darned near his ceiling. A guy who can beat the bad teams, but who falls apart against the Green Bay level teams & does the "Bad Rex" thing. As I said, I sure hope I'm wrong. We need him to step up to the next level of play.

    If this is as good as it gets, then I'm for seeing if Trestman is the guy who can really live up to his rep as a guru with QB's - and see what he can do with a young kid. If the QB guru thing is just hype (like Tice was supposed to be the OL guru) then we're screwed.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    357
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +377 / 0 / -0
    Your previous post was also spot on. This what I like about this new regime everyone is held accountable even them (HC GM). That's the kind of guys you want to work for in any environment. Funny thing is Trestmen also seems like a nice guy and that was one of the reasons they said he wouldn't be a good coach. So why did being a nice guy work for Lovie getting HC job over trestman in 2004? Because Trestman was interviewed for the Bears HC in 2004 and he felt he had a strong chance of landing the job of course we ended up with numbnuts. So 9 years later we will be put on the path that should have occurred years ago.
  17. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 SuperFan

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,532 / 0 / -0
    Lovie was good, but would never have been great. Good but not great. He was the best coach we've had in many years, but he would never have been "The Guy" to win a super bowl in Chicago.

    Cutler is also good but not great. I'm beginning to get a bit concerned that he may be the "good but not great" version of Lovie. He will win a lot of games for us, but is he "The Guy" who can lead us to Super Bowl wins? I guess we'll see.
  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    19,126
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,850 / 5 / -4
    I didn't need to give Rex or Kyle 2 years in an O to know they didn't have it. Hell all I needed was 3 games to know KO didn't have it, and Rex all I needed was the 6-8 games of his last year to know he didn't have it.
    Harbaugh in SF needed 1 year to know Smith didn't have it also.

    If the team decides that Cutler doesn't have what it takes to run Trestman's O, and they decide to move on, it won't take 2 years.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Tarkus

    Tarkus

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    253
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +255 / 0 / -0
    I don't see it as Jay reaching his ceiling & being prepared to settle for that or going out to try & upgrade. It's a simple assessment this year if he'll be a drive killer against the elite teams in the league.

    1. We rely on defense as an identity which has served us well & one we have to keep replenishing to stay in the top 5
    2. We have Hester back on STs which he showed glimpses of a return to cutting back against the grain form that's worth it's weight in FP gold
    3. What appears to be some semblance of young talent on the OL
    4. A decent stable of WRs who have the size on most DBs
    5. A system that will utilize Forte's receiving as well as running
    6. A offensive minded HC who's resume's not too shabby working with QBs
    7. A DC who's smart enough to keep his ego in check & not try to force feed a new system to a successful D
    8. A GM who's not afraid to pull the trigger to make things happen

    All the above will mean zip if Cutler continues to have brain spasms at the most ridiculous moments.

    Know a bunch of Pack fans who laugh at the comparison between Rodgers & Cutler but I have to concede a major point. Sure, Rodgers has had HC/OC/scheme stability/WRs & time to mature before hitting the field but there's 1 thing I remember...Rodgers has also been heavily abused from a poor OL which just made him more conscious of poor risk/reward throws. He was cautious to a fault where Jay takes the 'tight coverage means I try to drill an opening somewhere'.

    The game slowed down for someone like Rodgers where it hasn't in Cutler. So even if his #s stay relatively the same but he changes that 1 thing, I'd feel, along with all of the above, he'd be good enough for us to feel confident going into the playoffs.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. riczaj01

    riczaj01

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    19,126
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings:
    +1,850 / 5 / -4
    agree 100% w/Tarkus

Share This Page