If we had an opportunity to sign OT Jonathan Martin cheap, should we do that?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Warlock

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    So harassing someone to the point of a mental health breakdown is nothing similar to raping someone? Rape is just the physical manifestation of the same act. Both do tons of emotional and psychological damage to the victims. Any Psychologist will tell you that rape isn't about the sexual act, it's about having the power over another individual. I would even go as far to say that the continual nature in most bullying/harassment cases is worse than a one-off rape... having experienced both myself, I can tell you that the bullying/harassment fucked me up far worse than being molested as a child. Especially when the bullying/harassment is something that you can't reasonably seem to be able to escape from (i.e. workplace harassment that spills into your social life). I know bullying/harassment is wrong from empirical knowledge on the subject... it has nothing to do with being tough or not, no one deserves to be treated that way... I'm as tough as they come too, mostly because I have be able to not only deal with a fucked up life, but turn it into a relatively normal one despite all the baggage that I'm forced to carry. You see, I didn't ask to be molested or bullied/harassed... self-justifying assholes made those decisions for me... I got treated poorly in life, it doesn't give me the right to treat others in a similar fashion, that's what you ignorant bastards don't seem to understand. It's a fucking choice that we all make in how we treat others and just because something was done to you or happens regularly doesn't make it fucking right. It just means that you're the panzy who is unable to transcend the bullshit and make your own decisions.
     
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  2. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Back to the original point...I would take a flyer on Martin. From all accounts except the dysfunctional and unsuccessful Miami Dolphins, Martin is mentally tough, physical on the field, and has a great work ethic. I agree with Ric in that he probably isn't a left tackle in the league. If you look at his scouting report it said he excelled at run blocking, calling him a ROAD GRADER however his pass blocking he struggled with at times. He seems more suited for guard to me. I think this would help our team because then we could kick slausen into center. Either way, unlike Webb, who Ric loves to compare Martin to for some unbeknown reason, Martin was one of the most highly rated lineman coming out of college...he'll get a job again and I would bet be successful.
     
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  3. 4dabers

    4dabers Veteran
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    So now some of us are ignorant bastards. Sorry you had such a rough life dude, I think most of us have a story, some are fine sharing, others are not, but we would all do well to actually read the words of what others say without inputing your your own story into assumptions of what you think they mean. NO ONE has said this thing was RIGHT in any way. Yet now we have compared this whole thing to the trauma of rape.

    Man, sometimes I think we are doomed because of our inability to communicate, or maybe it's our inability to actually hear/read what the other person is saying.
     
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  4. rich1978

    rich1978 Veteran
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    I was gonna reply but i wouldnt be able to better that post 4db

    warlock - sorry to hear about your past, i think you are totally misunderstanding what i'm saying but im not gonna get any sort of enjoyment out of debating this further on here with you and dredging up old memories for you, so I'm gonna leave it at that. Keep fighting and bear down brother.
     
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  5. Warlock

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    I read quite well, tyvm. Ignorance is more the dooming mechanic in this world. We, as people, tend to wrap ourselves up in delusions that make us feel better about our choices (i.e. ignoring things or twisting them to suit ourselves, aka justifying, as evidenced in this thread by some). Abuse is abuse and any reasonable person will agree that abusing someone is bad and/or wrong, regardless of the circumstances. So in order to become ignorant of this simple truth, people justify (i.e. make exceptions). For example, telling someone that I'm going to run a train on their loved one, is some how now OK because I'm in a lockerroom. Or maybe it's now OK, because I'm a big dude and can stand up for myself. The problem is that circumstances do not change the fact that someone treated another human being this way and no amount of justification is going to change this simple truth. It takes far more strength (of mind and character) to challenge the status quo than follow blindly in the mob. The mob offers safety and justification for actions that we as people know are inherently wrong. When you make exceptions of concious and morality, well... where does it end? Currently, the world is so fucked up because of this selective morality. I mean, maybe if more people stood up and fought the good fight rather than accepting the status quo, we wouldn't be arguing about "gray areas" in a situation where one human being was treated in an abusive manner and some people wouldn't be trying to justify it.

    As for assumptions... I didn't exactly quote you did I, thus the one making assumptions here is you... you're assuming that my post was directed at you or maybe you're trying to justify your point of view because my statements challenge your perspective. You see friend, there's this thing in language called context and it helps one interpret statements made. The context of my statement relate to the post that I quoted, when you read into my statement in a manner that wasn't intended, the confusion is your own fault... because you chose to ignore the rules of language. So please, continue to justify your belief that I'm illiterate, since I guess that will in some manner make it easier for you to sleep peacefully at night.
     
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  6. short faced bear

    short faced bear Assistant Head Coach
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    When it's all said and done we do not know the context and intent which all this harassment/bullying/hazing/mental "rape" is going on as we are not there. With all the shades of gray which this incident can or could take place you could even extrapolate this into gas-lighting. The interpretation that each person is looking through sees a different perspective/dimension. All from what a stout person would take to what a regular player would take, to the average Joe, then to what an abused person would take. Solutions, like the problem itself are fluid and not fixed.

    In the end it perhaps boils down to how to survive the situation. The more diverse the coping mechanisms the more different the opinions. However, two constants remain: Incognito is a douchebag and so is the mgmt. in Miami.

    -end story
     
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  7. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Part of the problem because he was playing well enough...apparently poor job performance justifies harassment and abuse...

    Part of the problem because he wasn't mental tough enough to put up with Incognito' s shit, even though he tried too, probably thinking/hoping it would eventually stop....it didn't....

    Part of the problem because he didn't punch Incognito in the nose...Martin is big and strong; of course he should have used violence to solve his problems...

    Part of the problem because he didn't run to management with his problem and rat Incognito out...which was just as culturally unacceptable as quitting the team...

    Part of the problem because he didn't just shut up and take it...
     
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  8. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Assistant Head Coach
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    Every year there's an opportunity for teams to pick up a player "on the cheap" who has some kind of baggage issues. Every player situation is different. It just seems like teams try to discern if it's worth taking a shot on a player in a (hopefully) low-risk, high-reward opportunity.

    Many of the better coaches have the ability to do this, without any serious consequences. If the player doesn't turn out to be worth a permanent roster spot they just cut him. It's looking like the 49ers and the Colts are interested in Martin. Only time will tell if he turns out to be a top-tier OL, but if he doesn't pan out they'll just move on from the guy.

    If he does pan out to be a solid LT in the NFL, then they will have a OL version of what we did with Brandon Marshall. B.Marsh was supposed to be a "cancer" for any team. Emery didn't buy into that and brought him here on the cheap. It worked out pretty good for us, and not so well for stupid Miami. Before folks jump on me, I'll clarify that B.Marsh isn't Martin. My only point is that smart teams sometimes kick the tires on a player with baggage issues - and it pays off bigtime.

    To me, it's all about "value" in how teams spend that cap money. All NFL teams are playing now with the same amount of money for players. It's all about how much talent they can acquire with a finite amount of cap money. Hitting home runs on the cheap is just one of many ways the better teams do this. Granted, there are many factors that go into building a championship team, and not just hitting on one long shot player. But you notice that the teams that have sustained success in the NFL are the ones that take care of "the little" opportunities because they can add up to success.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
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  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    BMarsh was a risk b/c of his off the field issues which could have led to suspensions, not so much his problems dealing w/other teammates(cosidering Cutler is here).

    Richie Incognito will be cheap also, and never was known for trouble until now, w/just a few off field issues that never went to court, and he's more proven, why not get him? Why b/c he's a world class D-Bag.

    Martin QUIT on his team b/c he was being picked on for two years, after he partook in the picking on, and w/out going to managment to try and get it to stop. He played 1 year, 16 games, and nothing I'm finding said he lit up the game.

    Don't want or have need for either of these guys anywhere near the Bears.
     
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  10. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Short memory...Marshall acted like a spoiled child on his way out of Denver..."locker room cancer" was certainly a label attached to him by many at the time...
     
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