If we had an opportunity to sign OT Jonathan Martin cheap, should we do that?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Fact is despite what some think, he was bullied.

    There are multiple forms of bullying.

    Call it hazing if you want, but that is LAME excuse word to make bullying look okay.

    And yes, still waiting for Ric to define bullying
  2. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Whereas I agree things are not necessary black and white, you continue to place all the burden on Martin...in your mind, even at unacceptable levels (which you admit things became) it's still about Martin doing/handling it better/different...at unacceptable levels, Martin becomes the victim...and you're blaming the victim...his coaches failed him, his teammates failed him...Martin did the only thing he felt he could do to stop being a victim and that was to walk away...reasonable victims remove themselves from unacceptable situations...only idiots allow themselves to remain in situations where they continue to be victimized...

    I don't know if Martin is going to play again in the NFL or if he does how well he will do...however, don't think him being unable or unwilling to put up with Richie's unacceptable shit automatically means Martin is incapable of being "the monster" on the field...such declarations seem, oh, I don't know, a bit simplistic...a bit black and white...
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  3. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Blaming the victim.... Like in rape cases people love blaming the victim....


    Oh she was wearing provacitive clothing, she was hinting that she wanted it, she kept teasing, she led me on the whole night and backed out at he last possible second.... So it has to be her fault and I was entitled to what she appeared to be selling all night.

    People go to great lengths to blame the victim.
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  4. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    If nothing else, I'm glad this didn't go down with OUR team. Everything here in Chicago seems mighty positive right now. We have a lot of good stuff to look forward to with Emery and Trestman here. Trestman and Emery seem to be people who will try to keep it a class organization. We have a lot of good stuff to look forward to this coming season, and beyond.
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  5. abegibronlives

    abegibronlives Veteran

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    That is the question, and I'm not sure of the answer. He did not live up to expectations in Miami, whatever the reasons. Can he play? The jury is still out on that one.

    Our O-line took a big step forward last year, and with the amount of youth there, there is every reason to think it will get better as a unit moving forward. Our larger concern is on the other side of the ball.
  6. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    Ahh my bad, didn't realize I said nuclear first. My apologies.

    I talk about Philbin because I'm going off of the Wells report which comes from people who have way more perspective on this than any of us. They say, point blank, that they believe if someone had come to Philbin with this that the situation would have been handled.

    He still released the voicemail giving ESPN the okay to use it, and never once went to his coaches/superiors with this problem. I think Incognito was an asshole who went over the line, but Martin handled it awfully and I don't like him one bit either.

    100% positive, it was never once brought to the attention of anyone before he walked away from the team.
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  7. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Martin not directly reporting things to management is not necessarily the something as management being 100% unaware of the situation...either management knew of Martin's treatment, and tactilely approved or didn't care...or they were completely ignorant of what was happening right under their noses in their locker room....I am not sure with one is more likely....but given the defense by some of Martin's treatment, I am leaning toward the first...
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  8. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    If the management was watching they'd see teammates ribbing Martin and Martin giving shit right back. They'd see Martin teaming up with Incognito and the others and pranking fellow lineman. They'd see Martin and Incognito hanging out constantly and spending loads of time willingly outside of work. That would raise very few alarms to me.
  9. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Let me pose this question.

    Do you have a bigger problem with Martin because "he was not tough enough to take it"
    Or that "he didn't handle/report it 'in a proper manor'"
    Or both?
  10. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Few alarms or zero alarms? Was Miami management completely unaware the situation because Martin never spoke up or were they kinda, maybe, sorta, perhaps, some what aware?
  11. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    And yet it works whether college or noen,just about every president of this US has been part of one. And like I said, most of the people wanting to joing EXPECTED and WANTED it, when we moved away from it people dropped out and/or didn't join. Hazing done right isn't just treating someone like shit, and it's meant to build the entire new group to rely on eachother during that time as well as
    no i'm not placing all the blame on martin, not once did I say this is all Martin's fault, and Incognito was a victim. I've stated from my first post that I didn't approve of Incognito, and have constantly said he went to far. I'm saying it wast bullying, BIG difference in saying that it's all the victims fault.
    **Btw Benj, did you really just compare this to rape? really, guy was given shit in a locker room and thats equal to rape?!?!??! puh-lease** And I've never put the blame on the rape victim so just stop.

    Martin didn't do what he should have to nip this in the bud, several choices(fight back, he actually did it a little according to the report, it states that he had a bipolar compex relationship w/Incognito and I've read that some of his txts back to Richie were similar), he could have went to mangament, he didn't, this is the biggest problem), lastly his play could have elevated to the point this wans't necessary, that also didn't happen.

    And my original point was I didn't want Martin on this team b/c he was giant pansy, and seems wayt similar to a JWebb, a guy that hasth look to be a top T in the NFL, but doesn't have the mentality or the physicalness to play.
  12. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    No I did not compare it to rape. Just brought up rape when it was mentioned about blaming the victim.

    BTW

    Still waitjng for you to give your definition of bullying
  13. VJ18

    VJ18 Veteran

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    I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if this was a scam by Harbaugh to get a cheap free player
  14. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    If I saw Martin get ripped on and then proceed to talk shit back, why would I think that he's not handling it? If he's pranking other teammates why would I think that he's not up to the task?
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  15. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    Didn't handle/report it in the proper manner.
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  16. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    You said Incognito's behavior was unacceptable...he took normal looker room shit giving and hazing to an unacceptable level.....if not bullying or harassment, then what do you call it?

    I don't thing you want to label what Incognito did as bullying or harassment, because deep down, I don't think you really feel Incognito actually did anything wrong...it was only "wrong" because Martin didn't handled it in your preapproved matter(s)....
  17. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I did define it already, got back and read.
  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I'm sorry didn't know you were a shrink, what's when did you get your doctorate?

    Deep down I think Incognito was ginormous PoS, I also think a 6foot 300 lb man that is an elite athlete from an elite educational institution should be able to handle himself better then martin did, and in no way would I ever want a guy that quit on his team on the Bears

    This is not some physically inferior, ignorant kid that was getting punked on by a much bigger stronger more mentally capable person, actually Martin is bigger then Richie.

    I also understand that everything, even from the earliest reports said the friendship was "complex" and even the report calls the relationship between the two bipolar and complicated. There are reports that Martin was talking shit and participating in these same kind of activiites.

    The problem is that people want to act like Martin was this poor kid getting bullied, it's FAR more then that.
  19. Wolfman

    Wolfman Assistant Head Coach

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    Sounds like plausible dependability, or the Sgt Schultz defense...like I say, we may never know for sure, I guess I am just too cynical to believe no one in that locker room, in management, didn't have some inkling of what was going on....
  20. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    Want back looking a every post and cannot find your definition. All you said numerous times was "this was not bullying" and rambles about PC crap

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