If we had an opportunity to sign OT Jonathan Martin cheap, should we do that?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    To equate him to J Webb is a mistake in my view. J Webb didn't play at Stanford and block Andrew Lucks blind side. At no point in his career was he ever as successful as Martin. Further Webbs work ethic and intelligence were question marks before the draft and his bad body language at the Texas vs the nation game turned a lot of teams off on him. That's never been in question with Martin on the other hand. My view is Martin wasn't fit to play left tackle in the NFL. He's more likely an excellent right tackle or guard(he excelled at run blocking in college). Do you think you can play for Jim harbaugh and not be mentally tough? He may have been viewed as soft because unlike incognito, jerry, and pouncey he had a brain in his head and was highly intellectual.

    As for his drive/work ethic...this is from his scouting report: Martin brings a work ethic that seemed to be infectious across Stanford's offensive line and has the on field attitude you like in your tackle. He also brings a special toughness and has played well through some minor injuries. His teammates say he has a true desire to be the best at his position.
     
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  2. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Assistant Head Coach
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    This ^^^^^

    I'd be thinking I was pretty much trapped in a hell hole. Think about it. You're the new guy. The half-wits are the veterans who are supposed to be running the place. You try to fit in and become "one of the guys" but these guys are nuts. Real nuts. Finally you just can't pretend and run with these apes. The monkeys are running the zoo here and have the power.

    Who's going to listen to you if you complain to the head coach? Let's get real here. Nobody is going to listen to anything you say.

    I would (if I had the balls) done exactly what Martin did. I'd just leave. In my eyes that is the gutsy move. He put his entire career on the line by doing something like this. Right now it looks like his decision could help others who may be subjected to lunatics like Ritchie Incognito. Martin got a fair shake from the NFL here, with the independent investigator. Do you think he'd have gotten ANYTHING remotely like that from the hell hole franchise in Miami. Don't make me laugh.

    Watch what happens with Martin moving forward. He'll probably go to the San Francisco 49ers and I'll bet he'll have a rock solid career. The guy has the talent. He'll want to prove himself once he's on a team that can appreciate him. But don't take my word for it. Just watch what happens with this guy and his career. And then watch what happens with Incognito......stick a fork in him. His career is done. The bully will spend the rest of his life considered a half-wit idiot who blew a a career in the NLF.
     
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  3. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    what he did in college means jack son, all the guys that made it to the NFL where good college players, or had the athletic ability to give them a shot at the nfl. LT for the best qb to come out of college since Manning, ya bet that was a tough job. Certain positions don't need brain surgeons, I don't need my LT to be able to out think a qb, I need him to be a road grader or a brick wall, and being smart and soft do neither of those. If he's as mentally tough as he should have been, he could have handled it what was happening over a 2 year period w/out cracking or quitting on his team. Fact is, not just Incognito thought this guy needed toughening up, Pouncey and other players did also, no one on that team before during or after backed Martin, not even the other one that were getting worked over by Richie and Pouncey, no one on that team felt he would be missed, yet you think he'd be an improvement on the Bears? Nope, and if he is needed then there is a bigger issue on the OL then anyone is thinking.

    I wouldn't take either of these guys, or pouncey for that matter.
     
  4. little bear

    little bear Assistant Head Coach

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    Back to the main question:

    Yes, I would sign him if the price is right. He's had a good college career, he's young, talented and we definitely need OL depth, especially if we're not gonna re-sign Scott and Britton.
    Mills has been a huge surprise this year, so I wouldn't call Martin an upgrade over Mills. But it would still be a nice addition.

    P.s.: Incognito has always been a classless piece of shit. Second dirtiest player in the league after Suh. Period. Really hope his NFL career is over. That kind of player doesn't belong in any locker room.
     
  5. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas
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    Not sure if you keep missing my question, or if you are ignoring it Ric. Lemme ask one more time

    What do you define as bullying?

    You keep saying what he was doing was not bullying. So I am just curious what your definition of bullying is.
     
  6. 4th and 26

    4th and 26 George Halas
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    I would not take him because he is damage goods.
     
  7. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Assistant Head Coach
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    I probably shouldn't have started this thread because all of us have pretty strong feelings on the subject - and none of us are going to talk others out of their position on it :)

    But I did want to add one thing (Ric, you know I'm an oline nut). I understand where you are coming from here. But I did want to stick up for the OL guys as being pretty sharp cookies. They're not the lunkheads most folks believe them to be. In fact, they score highest on the Wonderlic each year too. It's a much more complex position to play than most folks realize. It's not just blocking one guy on every play. The defenses now are incredibly complex and each OL guy often has multiple blocking tiers to execute in sequence, and they need to know how to pick up complex stunts and blitzes. I know you realize this, but just wanted to point it out that the BEST oline guys are smart guys too. So there is value in having an OL guy that is sharp enough to execute complex plays against complex defenses.

    The best coaches discern when to pick up a guy in a value situation like this, where it makes sense to invest a modest amount in a guy who can pay big dividends (Belichick has done this for many years, but other sharp coaches do the same). If the guy doesn't pan out, you've lost very little.....just cut him. But if he does pan out, you have added a key piece, making your team stronger for multiple years (great OL often have very long careers in the NFL). Watch what happens with Martin moving foward, compared to Incognito. Some team will take a shot at Martin, and probably hit a home run with him. I have no doubt that Martin would fit in fine with a Marc Trestman team & locker room. This isn't MIami.

    I see Martin as a pretty tough guy. Certainly tougher than an Incognito. What he did took balls. I admire him for it. The NFL, moving forward, will be a better work place for players because of what he did. I love that.

    I don't think Martin is coming here anyway, now that folks are saying San Francisco is probably going to pursue him. So it's a moot point.
     
    #67 JustAnotherBearsFan99, Feb 16, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  8. Chicago_66

    Chicago_66 Veteran

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    I was on board with what you were saying until I got to this part. Comparing Incognito to Martin, moving forward, is not in anyway a fair comparison. Martin is a 2 year pro who has youth behind him.. Incognito is a guy, while very dirty, is nearing 31 and already had plenty of years behind him. Of course they're not going to match up in the next 5 years.. Martin is on the upswing of his career age wise and Incognito is nearing the tail end of his. I think Martin would have fit in here, but after this fiasco I wouldn't want him anywhere near us. He's just bad press and, in my opinion, not a super team player. I really disagree how he never attempted even once to keep this within the organization. I don't want Bears players to go running to the media with every issue.. it should be dealt with in house, or at least attempted.

    That brings me to the second part.. I don't see Martin as a tough guy.. and certainly am not going to compare toughness to Incognito. I'm not saying dirty = tough, but to call what he did tough and saying it takes balls, in my humble opinion, a load of crock. What he did takes zero cajones, in fact it's the biggest bitch move you could have pulled out of all the options available to him. Incognito and the other lineman were giving him a hard time and besides the occasional "fuck you man" he never once raised concern. I read through the Wells report and it seems like Martin joined in the taunting of other places, talked shit right back, and willingly spent loads of time with his alleged bully. If the physical route is not your cup of tea that does not mean you run to the media and make a shit storm for the team that drafted you and put an ugly media scope on your fellow players. That looks bad for everyone top to bottom and should be used as a last resort. Loads of teammates (well beyond just fellow "bully" OL) said Martin and Incognito were inseparable and considered the two to be like brothers. They constantly hung out and he never once took Incognito aside and told him "Hey man.. I know we give each other shit but the stuff llike ___________ and _________ and _______ truly truly bother me. I would appreciate it if you would knock it off.. it's really fucking with me mentally and it's affecting my performance." I don't think you can say that's too personal because Incognito is one of two fellow players that he actually divulged his suicidal thoughts to. He felt comfortable enough to tell him he's thought about offing himself and has mental issues yet won't raise issue to the "bullying" ? I saw plenty of examples of Incognito reaching out to Martin in a compassionate way.. truly worried about his friend. Sure Incognito is an asshole but I think that overall he really cared about the guy.. and I think if he had known that how this allegedly affected Martin.. even in the half.. he would have let up and told the rest of the guys to knock it off as well. OKay.. so Martin goes down that route and nothing happens or it even gets worse.. then you go to HR and tell them. You go to the OL coach and tell him.. the OL coach seemed like a dick so maybe you skip him and talk to Philbin. There is no reason to go from accepting this treatment for years and never objecting to going full nuclear and bring that fucked up media into the picture.

    To me, the whole thing is fishy. He's saving voicemails for months? He's a Stanford grad, with apparent at least a decent IQ, a huge physique, and he can't say anything? He doesn't try to talk to anyone in the coaching staff/front office? His Mom is a Harvard Law grad and having a degree like that you'd know how to handle bullying in the workplace. I think some of the shit Martin said was calculated and the way he went about it just stinks to me. I'm not saying this is for sure the case, but I have my doubts about the whole thing. Even if you drop all of that, Martin handled it completely wrong and I wouldn't want an asshole nonteam player like that in the Bears locker room. Hell plus you add in the fact that before each season Philbin held a meeting that said if you have issues do not hesitate to come forward, in confidence, and it'll be handled. I just would want nothing to do with him.
     
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  9. Warlock

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    Just because these groups find that behavior acceptable, doesn't mean that everyone finds it acceptable. If some co-worker is bullying me, I'm more than capable of smashing them to pieces, but I'm too intelligent to get caught up in the legal/criminal rammifications of such action... at the end of the day, no one should be forced to deal with a hostile work environment. If you enjoy that kind of thing, good for you... either find likeminded indiviudals to share it with or keep it to yourself. Choosing not to fist fight someone at your place of employment. when you're being disrespected, doesn't make you a panzy... it makes you intelligent, because all you have to do is speak-up and get your co-worker fired for being a douchebag.

    Additionally, it's not a normal job... Martin simply can't go find the same job at another Company. The team owns his rights, so he shouldn't be forced to hurt his career by simply choosing to leave a bad situation. Martin has just as much right be play football as Incognito or Pouncey.
     
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  10. Warlock

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    Then you didn't read the report... On one side Incognito showed concern, then you read his texts to Pouncey around the same time and know it was just him nervously trying to appease Martin for the shit he's done/said. Typically behavior when people are afraid of getting in trouble... "hey buddy, want to go to the movies?" then later on, "you didn't tell so and so that I did whatever?". Incognito is a PoS and deserves everything that's coming his way.
     
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