Interesting Look At Some Mocks..........

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by soulman, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Grizz you are over valuing Donald then, no one at 14 is that much higher or lower in vlaue then the others that are ranked in that area. No team is looking at Donald as the MUST have and everyone else as the consolation prize, same w/just about everyone outside of the top 5-8 in this draft.

    Nix can play NT in a 3-4 and 4-3, and can play DT in a 4-3 also, so while not a "classic" 4-3 DT he's not limited to ONLY 3-4 NT either. The inj concern is an issue, but that's up to the Bears and other teams Medical guys to decide if he's okay, we'll never know.
  2. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    He has value for us because he is a perfect fit schematically. I'm not in the "Donald or bust" club at 14, and I think if we get someone else we have plenty of real good options in the 2nd/3rd. If Nix is there in the 2nd then maybe, but I still would take Quarles, Jernigan, Hageman over him if it came down to it. Donald is clearcut our best option for what we need right now. Down the road unlike other guys he will be handcuffed to that 3tech most likely but if we really are in a "win now" state then he probably comes in and provides the biggest impact to our D this year.
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  3. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    how do you know what the Bears need right now though? I'm not saying you are wrong, or that he's not your standard Lovie 4-3 DT, but WE as fans have NO idea what Tucker wants out of his D players right now, other then they'll run mostly 4-3 and SOME 3-4. That's all WE know. We are all projecting what the Bears need w/out knowing what they want to do.

    If they need a small fast 4-3 DT then ya Donald is the guy, but that isn't how EVERY 4-3 works and Tucker might not want to run his 4-3 that way.
  4. abegibronlives

    abegibronlives Veteran

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    Whomever they select, I think we can all be grateful that Jerry Angelo won't be doing the selecting.
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  5. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    That's always been my opinion of "Domer" linemen. They aren't lousy but they never produce in the NFL like they did in college. They get hyped a lot and then typically disappoint at the pro level. And you're right. Many times it's not JUST the linemen, Brady Quinn cough cough.

    I toss Nix and Hageman along with Tuitt into the same barrel. The 3-4 only barrel where all they really need to be is space eaters. What gets me about some of these mocks which have or had us taking Nix or Hageman they all say the same thing. The Bears need to get bigger inside to stop the run. That of course triggers my pissy attitude about those aholes who couldn't take the time to look at all of what's been done in FA to relieve that problem. It's like they wrote that opinion in January and then took of for the Gulf of Mexico to chase whores and fish for marlin and yet they get paid for writing that crap?

    Donald or Jernigan are useful day one as DTs although Donald will be the better of the two as a pass rusher. If they grab a Safety first then fold back to guys like Quarles or Johnson, Sutton or Reid farther down. I truly believe Donald is their guy if he's there. I think Pryor and Fuller are fall back picks and maybe Jernigan if it has to be a DT but for him or Fuller I could see them dropping back a bit and taking whoever is left. If they add another 3rd that gives them some leverage to trade up in two if they feel the need or gives them two decent 3rd round picks. This is not a spot where you take any risks with this pick and Nix and Hageman are both risks.
  6. abegibronlives

    abegibronlives Veteran

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    Donald would be a good fit, make the loss of Melton a bit easier to take.
  7. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    I can't make up my mind how much of a loss Melton is. Anywhere from a good player to a potential great player. Given our cap and all of that, if we can replace him with a similar talent for less from the draft, it will even out. I'm concerned about how to get a long term replacement for Peppers/Allen given that I don't expect us to be drafting in to top 5 any time soon.
  8. dachuckster

    dachuckster Veteran SuperFan

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    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
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  9. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    That article makes me want him even more (in a football kind of sense of course)
  10. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I like him too of course for 14. But if there's anything that gives me a bit of pause it's that his height is such that he prob couldn't put on much more mass (for run D) without compromising his quickness. Maybe I'm wrong there. Melton and Atkins were Donald's approx size but were able to bulk up to ~300. AD is likely maxed out at around 285-290. Does that make a significant difference? I don't know, above my pay grade

    Pryor is growing on me the more I read (also reading that Dix is almost surely gone by 13). Now how much better a prospect is he compared to Buchannon? Way better?? If so, he's a logical choice in the 1st. If not, then you gotta consider that Buchannon should be there at 51 (or even with a small 2nd round trade down) and he's 6'1" 211, ran a 4.49, and racked up 15 picks vs solid competition in his college career. The Bears have met with both of them so Phil should have a solid picture of the pros and cons between them.
  11. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Nice find chuckster. Atkins and Gerald McCoy are the guys he compares most favorably with but with Atkins more because of his size. Quarles is more McCoy's size. So it appears that if we do miss out on him there is at least one more 3 tech prospect who would be there in two.
  12. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    This is probably my single biggest argument for Donald over a Safety. If you can't draft a top 3 tech DT then you need to build one. We got lucky with the combination of Melton and Marinelli in that he built us one who was the first effective pure 3 tech DT we've had since Tommie Harris's decline.

    I think the decision here is much the same as it was when we drafted Harris with exactly the same #14 pick. Do we take a proven ready to go day one 3 tech here or do we wait and take one of those who'll need more time to develop and may still not be quite as good. Both can get the job done it's just that one will probably just be a good DT and the other could be a Pro Bowl level guy which is what we're trying to replace.
  13. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Neither Melton or Atkins play at 300lbs. I'd say both are shy of that and so is Nate Collins. If there's a difference it's probably no more than 10lbs provided Donald can maintain his weight at 285lbs or greater. With Donald's quickness and strength that 10lbs won't make any difference if he's playing "his game" of shooting gaps and penetrating into the backfield. The quicker and more cat like the better and 10lbs more won't get him past a 330lb OG who can get him locked up before he can shoot past him.

    That's the 3 tech game. Prior to Tommie Harris I'd say Steve McMichael was the best we ever had and although they didn't label his position that way back in the '80s that what he was. A penetrating disruptive pass rusher and one of the best at DT to ever play the game. McMichael played most of his career around 275-280lbs and went 6'2". John Randle was THE best of this type of DT I ever saw play and he was 6''1" on tippy toes and about 280lbs. It's their combination of speed, strength, smarts, and determination that shoots these guys to the top. Not monstrous size. Donald is plenty big to play 3 tech the way the Bears defense has always played it.
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  14. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Interesting because that has been in my calculus for a while. What position now that we have a high pick should we take because we may not pick this high in a while. I keep coming back to DE, DT and CB. For a DE, 14 is actually probably high enough. Those guys always go really high. Then there is CB and DT. Both very valuable and hard to find on the open market if you want a top guy. I'd probably say CB over DT. However, this year I think we could use a DT more than a CB, but that is more of a short term issue. Next year we will need CB for sure and will have to pick lower (I hope). I'm really where everyone else is... just rehashing the same old stuff. I trust Emerys analysis. As long as we get several players that can contribute, I'm ok with it. I have my favorites but won't be butt hurt if we don't get them. I generally don't get them any year anyway.... LOL
  15. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Thanks, Soul. I thought Geno had bulked up to 300 and Melton had to 295 as well. But yeah we are probably splitting hairs here talking about 10lbs or so. If Donald can be at least decent in run D, that's a huge plus because I think we all agree that he looks easily like the best interior pass rusher of this years class. Pompei had a Q&A column recently in which he said (compared to Jernigan) that Donald was clearly the better interior DL prospect and TJ isn't that much bigger either.
  16. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Top cover CBs are tougher to get but even those guys are beginning to overprice themselves and are getting released if they get too costly. We typically look more for guys who can play well in zone schemes and play run support. That type is a little easier to find both in FA and the second tier of the draft. They usually aren't cap killing diva's either like Revis. The way Tim Jennings plays for $5 mil or so per year we got a bargain and Peanut has earned ever dime he's made here.

    I guess it's just me but I'm far less worried about having great cover CBs as long as we have a good pass rush. We need a bigger more physical type to replace Peanut so if we can find a good one this year after the first round or two I'd say grab him and see if he can step up. If not we still have next year to either re-sign Peanut, sign a different FA or draft a CB higher.

    There are good CBs in every draft but DTs like Donald, Atkins, McCoy and that bunch don't come along all that often or there's be more of them and Dallas would have just drafted one instead of gambling on Melton.
  17. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Atkins is listed at 6'2"/293lbs and Melton played at 6'3"/295lbs. Nate Collins is 6'2"/293lbs. Gerald McCoy is 300lbs but he's also 6'4". So if you take height and body build into consideration these are pretty much the size NFL teams want their 3 their guys to be. I don't see an inch and 8-10lbs making much of a difference when a guy can play like Donald can. He shut a lot of doubters up after the Sr. Bowl and the Combine.

    Teams that play some 4-3 and don't have a true 3 tech move guys like Michael Bennett there to pass rush and Bennett is only 275lbs. So given the purpose for having that kind of player big isn't the answer. Quickness and strength is. They aren't expected to hold a gap they're expected to blow through it.
  18. abegibronlives

    abegibronlives Veteran

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    Allen is 31 I think, so he should be serviceable for a couple of years at least if he is not over-used. Is he as good as Peppers? maybe not, although he is a solid pass-rush guy. You don't necessarily need to draft in the top five to get a decent replacement: DeMarcus Ware was an 11th overall pick, Clay Matthews was #26, and Jared Allen himself was 126th overall going in the 4th round. They have done okay.
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  19. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    I agree, he would be a better version of Melton, more specialized to do exactly what we need IMO. Melton was a good example of what a 3 tech is needed to do. Doesn't matter what scheme exactly you run, if you have a 4 man front your 3 has roughly the same job. Penetrate, cause havoc, be a maniac in short. Set up camp in the backfield and smack anyone who looks like they may have the ball. Donald is a guy who seems hand crafted to do just that. The only, and I mean only question I have on him is how much 3-4 fronts we will run? I only wonder this because Donald really has no place in a 3-4. Maybe he could play the 4 if we had a over look from our LBs, but I just don't think he is a 2 gap player. If we are going to be in a 4-3 look more than 80 percent of the time I think he is invaluable to us. The question is if he makes it to 14.
  20. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    Yep, gems are still prevalent in the draft. Hell Dent was an 8th rounder, so equivalent to a UDFA. I'm intrested in what C. Washington can do or really what he is doing. The guy had better physical measurable than Clowny, and if that can be taped we could have a real force on our hands. He kinda got screwed in college, recruited to a 4-3 scheme that switched to a 3-4 when he was a freshman. He was a very highly recruited 4-3 DE out of HS and there were many who thought he would take the year and transfer when they went 3-4. If Tucker and co can get him back on pace we could have a real good player.

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