Louisville Safety Calvin Pryor Says He's Right Fit For Bears

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BelieveInMonsters, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Just watch Collins...if he stays healthy he'll be very very good. And why the hell does everybody have to be elite??!! Teams aren't made up of 11 elite players on each side of the ball. Jesus.
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  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Not only that but since when does 4 years of being a backup mean you've hit your peak and cannot get better? People are aware that our current TE was a nothing special TE in Dallas as a backup and it finally clicked his 5th year right? It happens, it might be more rare but it does happen.

    As for S, pick 2 guys in the mid rounds and they are still studs compared to the play was last year at that position, so a guy like Dix/Pryor would be near near HOF looking in comparisson to last year.
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  3. tbear1

    tbear1 Veteran

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    Collins is not elite, a difference maker, or 'very, very good.' He is good enough to get playing time on a bottom 5 defensive team after 3 years in the league. Does he have more gas in the tank? Maybe and I hope so for us. My point is I would rather go after a top DT that may be elite, a difference maker, or 'very, very good' than select a saftey in the first round. Most people think Collins is 'good,' I am still on the fence.

    I agree, pick D line first.
  4. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    bold pointless statements thank you.

    He was 2nd in the DT rotation last year and was the starter after melton went down before his own injury, butnow he's a bottom 5...sigh...
  5. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I think Nate Collins has been a helluva good value find for us and is a solid #2 man at 3T. You could argue that he outplayed Melton last year during his brief window of opportunity. Of course, Melton didn't exactly shine during those first 3 games which I and others pointed out at the time. The DL did next to nothing pass rush wise until the 2nd half of week 3.

    But....back to NC...the dude tore his ACL in October, IIRC. That means he probably didn't have surgery until late October/early November (most sports med docs like to wait at least a few weeks before fixing them). Few players are Adrian Peterson. Most take a full year to get back to 100% pre-injury NFL level performance (some never make it). Bottom line: good or not good, don't expect Nate Collins to be a full-time "starter" at 3T by opening day. He probably won't be back to 100% until mid-season or so.
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  6. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

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    I'm telling you guys right now. If we go with a 2nd round Safety or later, there's a really good chance that we're going to get absolutely picked apart over the top by the Green Bay and Detroit passing attacks in 2014.

    I'd much rather see us draft Pryor in the first round who can help us in pass coverage and vs the run right away and then add DT depth in the 2nd round.
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  7. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Yep. Papa of the bride for the first time and maybe the only time so I'll make it count. I was asked to play her favorite music for the ceremony too so I have this dual role that I need to prepare for. A r&b and blues musician playing wedding music all dressed up in a tux like he's part of the NY Philharmonic, LOL. Somehow THAT doesn't fit me.
  8. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Nonsense. That won't fly because Jimmie Ward is just as good a Safety as far as playing the ball, he's faster and he's more versatile than either Dix or Pryor and I don't see all that much of a difference between Pryor and Bucannon. Similar size and style of play. There are far more serviceable Safeties in the 2nd and 3rd rounds than there are elite pass rushing and penetrating 3 tech DTs. They so called experts may crow about the number of DTs but not all of them are 3 tech players. Most are not.
  9. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    Pryor is my new number one want, slightly after Donald. While I would be happy with Donald I think Pryor could prove a bit more valueable. I say this because IMO S and DT is of equal need, but we can get Quarles or someone to fill that role. While they will not likely be as effective as Donald, I think the difference between their play and the play of Pryor or Buchannon or Ward is less. We also get a chance at Jernigan or Hageman possibly falling. While both are a bit bigger, Jernigan played the 3 tech at FSU and has the penetrating talents that we need. I think Jernigan is one of the most underrated players in this draft and I don't think there is a very big gap at all between Donald and him.

    Pryor can provide some stability in our defensive backfield for some time. I watched some UL games and he has always preformed well. I don't think that he has a real weakness but has plenty of things he does well. What I see in that is it will be hard to exploit him, yet he could likely come through for some big plays for us. A quick turn around in the 2nd at DT would give us someone to rotate and compete with Collins, and if we play our cards right we very may well get a 2nd contributor from day one.

    For that reason, I wouldn't be disappointed at all with Donald, but my pick of choice is Pryor.
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  10. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Tbear. He only played in four games last year and was hurt early in the 5th. He's been good enough against the run to be used at NT too. Collins is a very solid backup although more so at DT than NT but even at just 296lbs he was able to hold his own at NT when he rotated with Paea. Luckily now that we have Ratliff we don't need to use him at NT but he's not the sole guy you want playing DT either if you expect a guy who can provide a great rush every time. He's good core player but he'll never be a Pro Bowler.
  11. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

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    Jimmy Ward is a "tweener" he's too small to be a successful NFL Safety and is too slow to be an effective NFL Corner. There are also big time questions about his strength because he only managed 9 bench press reps at the combine.

    Buccannon is a good player but there is clearly a big gap between him and Clinton-Dix/Pryor.

    Emery isn't looking for a one trick pony. He is looking for athletic ability first. He wants players who can play multiple defensive positions not a guy who is locked into one position like Donald.
  12. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    That's why I take Donald if he's there. Interior pass rushers like him are rare and they can wreck opposing offenses. The 3T draft is "deep" yeah but there's a steep dropoff after AD. All the 2nd-4th round likely prospects have major concerns attached to them (injury, inconsistency, character, low production, etc).

    I can certainly see the value of going with a safety in 1 but I don't think we are up the creek if we don't. We should have a shot at Buchannon in 2.
  13. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    I believe there are decent Safeties later in the draft but the mocks have them going way before there value as everyone seems to need a S. Dixon and Bailey also solid but they are rd 4 talents going in rd 3. If the mocks are correct you just never have a good option after rd 1 Depending on if Buchannon is there at rd 2 or not. Joyner in rd 2 may be a good idea but as a cb he is a rd 3 pick. Just not value at where you apparently have to pick them at vs what we have. As I said in another thread I am more intrigued with getting a good CB to fill the S role for a yr.
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  14. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Can't buy that Grizz. You mean you'd pass up an elite pass rushing DT for a Safety who no one feels is elite???

    If they don't get Donald, and I mean don't get because if he still on the board I think he's their guy. The one at the top of their board. If that happens I'm starting to believe they'll take Hageman. Not that I want them too but I believe they'll rate him higher than Jernigan because of his size, his positional versatility and his upside. Jernigan is pretty much like Paea. More of a NT who can play some DT but he's the one with the short arms, not Donald.

    I've read a few articles that made a case for Hageman and although I don't much like the pick I have to admit they're logic surrounding it was solid. What they were keying on was a few things Emery has said and is also known for. 1) he values freaky athleticism, 2) he values size, 3) he values positional versatility, and 4) he tends to pick players no one expects him to take. McClellin, Long, and Jeffery all fit that mold one way or another and so does Hageman.

    I simply like players more who have a productive college histories and are also high motor guys. Those are the two biggest negatives about Hageman so to me they have a major coaching job to do and a motivational one. If Emery is correct about Hageman's upside we may get a bigger faster version of Dan Hampton or more recently a Richard Seymour type of guy. He could be that dominating. If he's wrong we get Albert Haynesworth or something in between.

    The same 2nd tier depth exists at Safety as it does at DT once you begin to toss out all those who really aren't fits. We're after a specific kind of DT not just any DT and we should also be after a specific type of Safety and truth be told I think Ward is a better prospect at FS than Pryor. Ward also has the speed and ability to play at NB if needed so once again positional versatility may boost him up on the Bears board more than others.

    I won't walk away any more than a little disappointed if they pass on a DT for a Safety. You seldom get a shot at a guy like Donald out of the top ten and it's still 50/50 he won't even be there at #14 but if he is then I believe you take him because it may be a very long time before we draft that low again and have a shot at a guy who could be a dominant pass rusher and that is a huge need in this defense even more so than Safety.

    And in the words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that" and I won't be changing my mind.
  15. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

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    I'm afraid of that too. This seems to be the kind of pick emery just loves. High risk high reward. Low floor, high ceiling. Versatile, but alot of ?s.

    I would be equally ecstatic with Donald or Pryor or Dix. I do think they are all day one impact players and can provide for us all year and into the future. Just dont want antoher "Emery" first rounder. hes 50% on those working out and we are clearly trying to win now so I'd like to see him dunk the ball.
  16. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    There are multiple ways to attack the same problem.
    If you make sure that the QB does not have time to do what he needs to do, you can neutralize the passing game before it fets to the point that the safety becomes a factor. All I am saying is that your statement is not necessarily true. Yes, if we don;t have an effective pass rush, we better geef up the S and the CB too. We got by with marginal S play when we had a good defense. The LBs would drop back to cover to help and they were pretty good. It's a whole bunch of guys working together. You play to your strengths. Obviously, the strongest position you can be in is when you have both a strong pass rush as well as a top CB and S unit. Then it's miserable for the opposing O. And that's where I hope we get to.
  17. BelieveInMonsters

    BelieveInMonsters Veteran

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    Good QBs have a quick release which neutralizes any pass rush no matter how great it is.

    In our division alone, we have two passing attacks which are more than capable of doing just that in Green Bay and Detroit.

    We can't afford to over compensate the defensive line and go into the season with later round project safeties especially when you consider the gigantic question marks we have there in Mundy, an injured Conte, and a bunch of other guys who should only ever step on the field unless it's on special teams in McCray, Jennings, Martin, and Steltz.

    It will backfire miserably because the teams in our division will scheme around our defensive line with the quick release and absolutely destroy our secondary in the process.
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  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    BiH, I think that's the thing, so lets take a deeper look into that:
    The team that led the league in sacks last year had 60 and was Carolina, the Next was Buffalo and St Louis w/over 50. The lowest was 31 the Jags and Chicago and Houston and Atl w/32. So you can expect the team to get somewhere between 30 and 60 sacks.

    Now lets look at how many pass attempts nfl qb's have: you can expect an O to pass between 420-680 times a year; 50% of clubs had more then 580 attempts. So you are looking at the top teams hitting the top passing O's about about 8%-10% of the time.

    I would suggest to you that instead of trying to hit the qb 10% of the time you better try and have a backfield that can actually break up a pass.
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  19. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    BIM - I respect and understand what you are saying, but I disagree. The best I have seen at not getting sacked is Peyton. He gets it off really quick, but there is a difference between getting sacked and being thrown off your game. All of them, and I mean ALL of them - Manning, Brady, Rogers.... I have seen become ineffective with a strong pass rush. They may not get sacked as often as a QB that has a slower release, but big pressure makes a difference with these guys too. I've seen it with my own beady little eyes.
  20. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Those are sack stats though. Manning rarely gets sacked because he gets the ball off so fast, but he has been neutralized by being rushed a lot. One thing that I did not mention in my response to BIM, and that is a real factor also (IMO), is that a strong secondary, also helps the DL build pressure. The longer the secondary can cover, the longer it gives the DL to push the pocket and increase the pressure. If the QB has to keep holding onto the ball because because his options are covered, it does two things -
    1) makes him increasingly frustrated and messes with his internal clock
    2) allows the DL more time to put a hit on him even if there is no sack.

    So, each supports the other. But I still think that a strong DL can take pressure off the secondary, and as you guys point out, a strong secondary can give more time to the DL and take pressure off of them. Like I said, the best is to have a strong secondary AND a strong DL. Any option you take away give them less of a chance to make a play.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
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