Matt Forte as a RB and his Value to the Bears...........

Discussion in 'Front Page News' started by soulman, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. soulman

    soulman Position Coach
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    I always see a similar gracefulness in the running styles of Anderson and Forte and both were/are dangerous receivers too.
     
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  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    it's a bit old hat, but I was reading another site and they were talking about Forte and it came up how often Forte seems to get stuffed at the line, and someone actually pulled the stat and he's really not that bad. I limited it to RB's w/200+ carries, b/c imo that is a teams featured back, and it changes the spectrum quite a bit compared to backups or rb by commitee.

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-rushing-statistics/2009/
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    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}45{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}8.9{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Alfred Morris{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}335{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,613{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.81{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}101{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}55{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}13{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}83{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}7{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}9.3{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Frank Gore{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}258{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,214{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.71{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}76{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}42{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}8{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}67{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}10.1{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Steven Jackson{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}257{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,042{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.05{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}65{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}27{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}0{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}47{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}10.1{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Mikel Leshoure{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}215{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}798{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}3.71{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}57{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}17{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}9{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}46{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}1{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}10.2{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Stevan Ridley{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}290{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,263{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.36{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}79{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}33{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}12{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}82{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}10.3{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Doug Martin{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}319{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,454{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.56{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}91{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}38{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}11{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}1{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}58{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}11{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Trent Richardson{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}267{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}950{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}3.56{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}63{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}14{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}11{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}36{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}11.2{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Arian Foster{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}351{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,424{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.06{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}89{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}38{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}15{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}78{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}7{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}11.7{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Jamaal Charles{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}285{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,509{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}5.29{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}94{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}39{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}62{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}7{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}12.6{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Reggie Bush{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}227{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}986{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.34{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}62{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}28{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}6{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}43{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}13.2{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}LeSean McCoy{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}200{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}840{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}70{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}24{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}4{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}45{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}13.5{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Chris Johnson{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}276{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}1,243{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}4.5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}78{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}29{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}6{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}45{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}5{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}13.8{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Michael Turner{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}222{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}800{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}3.6{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}50{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}20{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}10{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}40{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}14{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Darren McFadden{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}216{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}707{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}3.27{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}59{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}12{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}1{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}33{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}14.4{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Adrian Peterson{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}348{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}2,097{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}6.03{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}131{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}61{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}12{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}85{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}10{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}14.7{/td}
    {/tr}
    {tr}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|142x@}Vick Ballard{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|41x@}211{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}814{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}3.86{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|32x@}51{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|39x@}26{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}2{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}3{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|37x@}50{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|35x@}1{/td}
    {td=bcolor:transparent|49x@}16.6{/td}
    {/tr}
    {/tbody}
    [/xtable]


    I actually went back farther then this, but these 2 kinda make the point w/out becoming to long, and it's pretty much always the same.

    But moreso what the #'s showed me was just how pointless this stat is, it's cybermetrics at it's worst. When you look at the leaders, how many would put their money behind the guys at the top vs the guys lower on the list. Who here is really going to take most of the rb's at the top of this list over Forte, McCoy, and especially Peterson? The only stand outs on those lists were Charles and Lynch and Rice.

    I know it sounds crazy, but I don't worry about a guy that gets stuffed at the line 10-15% of the time. For Forte last year it was about 33 time, or about 2 times a game. Meanwhile he's more then making up for those 2 stuffs by his 15-20+ other positive runs. AP is constantly getting stuffed at the line at about the same rate, and he might be the best since Sweetness. McCoy might well be the best back in the league right now and he's right there also. I think many Bears fans think Forte suffers more then other top backs, but the reality is even the really top end backs get stuffed at the line more then we realize.
     
  3. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Assistant Head Coach
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    Forte gets a lot of production with piss poor run-blocking in front of him. Last year was no better (the run blocking). The pass blocking definitely was better last year, but the run blocking in recent years is poor - including last year. Time after time after time you see Forte making something out of nothing. I'll be honest, it makes me really angry to watch the crappy run blocking in recent years. Forte is amazing, because he is very productive anyway.
     
  4. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    Ya for all those that complain about the OL and how it's treated Cutler, just think how much worse it's been for Forte, and then on top of that no real WR threats even after JC got here so the D's are still keying on Forte first and foremost.

    But just looking at the #'s it seems to happen to most of the top tier RB's, when teams know that you have a RB like that, they will likely be the first or 2nd option, so they prepare for that; again look at AP, and don't take my word for it, click the link, find the run stuff %, and go back 4-5 years, and AP is always in the 10-15% stuff range, same w/McCoy. When D's know your RB is a major key to the O, they are going to try and stop the RB first regardless.

    It also just doesn't seem to limit your elite backs, b/c just like always, no matter how far you go back, your great RB's get their yards in bulk, not 2-3-4 yards at a time. Out of 20 carries it's 5-10 1-5 yards, 3-4 stuffs, 3-4 6-10 yarders and a couple big runs. No RB that was great ever got 3-5 yards every time on his 20 carries. AP was stuffed 14% of the time in 2012 and had 2K yards, Shonne Green and Rice had 1/2 those yards but led the league w/4% stuff rates, would you take Greene or Rice and their 1K yards and 4 or so less TD's over AP and his 15% stuff rate? Of course not. Charles in an outlier last year.
     
  5. weneedmorelinemen

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    Benson is part of that deep dark cliff.
     
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  6. weneedmorelinemen

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    Benson is part of that deep dark cliff.
     
  7. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    I won't defend Benson but he wasn't that bad during his first couple years, and he was far more talented then Enis/A-Train/Salam. Hell on a fraction of his touches he had as many TD's and averaged the same ypc as the fan favorite TJ when they both played 15 games. Those 2 could have been a really solid 1-2 punch if TJ hadn't got all but hurt by the Bears drafting Benson and split the locker room before TC. That's if JA actually does something about the OL in the offseason after the SB loss.
     
    #17 riczaj01, Jul 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  8. weneedmorelinemen

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    674 yards is the most he could get in one year as a Bear. Anthony Thomas was twice the back Benson was as a Bear. Benson was a bigger bust than Enis. At least Enis had an excuse.
     
  9. soulman

    soulman Position Coach
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    Neal was a great RB and few probably recall that in his rookie year he bulked up to around 225lbs so he could play FB to Walter's HB. When Walter retired right after he dropped back to 210lbs and became a Pro Bowl RB but because he replaced a legend he never quite got the appreciation he deserved. He also ended his career pretty abruptly saying he had only planned on playing that long and wanted to walk away from the game while he still could. Walk that is. He also had some difficult personal issues to deal with around the end of his career as well.

    I think in many ways Matt Forte is a very similar back but he'll get more recognition because he isn't Walter's replacement. That was a hard act for anyone to follow. I also don't believe Matt Forte is anywhere near ready to give up the game nor will he be for quite a while longer. JMHO
     
  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
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    Benson had no OL, and didn't get the carries required to get more then those yards. A-Train wasn't a better RB, don't care if it was a Bear or anything else. Benson proved his worth in elsewhere. The Enis statement just proves your ignorance and/or blind hate.

    btw, this isn't about Cedric, it's about Forte. The entire point was there was a long line of flat bad to average RB's for the Bears between Neal and Forte. Don't like the names on the list, or the order, ignore the list stay on point for a change.

    I have to admit I wasn't a huge fan of Neals for the exact reason Soul mentions, he followed Walter, and as good as Neal was he couldn't be good enough, he also didn't play long enough. He was a hell of a RB looking back though, and the trail of bad rb's that followed him made you really miss what the Bears had in him.

    Forte on the other hand only had to be better then TJ and Benson, and the list of average to bad that came before them, and he has proven to be FAR superior to any of the list of RB's after Neal had left. So he'll be looked at in a far better light, but depending on how his replacements play he might get lost in the shuffle a bit, not as great as Watler or Gayle, not as bad as Enis and Salam, he'll be more like Anderson where people just don't talk about him much.
     

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