McCown not a sure thing

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BSBEARS, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Cassell got $7.4 mil for two years with $2 mil guaranteed so he's been paid $3.7 so but I doubt he'll be around for year two of it if they draft a QB. Daniels got $10 mil over three with $4.8 mil guaranteed including $1 mil in 2014 but he's eight years younger than McCown too. I believe all Campbell got was $3.75 for two years. Let me check.

    Yep, $3.75 for two years with zero guaranteed and if the Browns draft Manziel he's gone and only collects $1.875 mil for 2013.

    I believe that if the Bears can give him a 2 year deal for around $4 mil and guarantee him $2 mil of it this year that they'll at least be in the ballpark. Anymore than that and it should be predicated on his starts being greater than 2013 and if that's the case it's an ULTBE bonus and goes against the 2015 if it's earned. With what they gave Cutler and a younger guy like Palmer on the roster they probably can sign for a vet minimum it's hard to see them going more than that. What they can't to is lowball him or refuse to give him a two year deal with some security because if someone else out east or down south nearer his home does he make take it to be closer to his family. He's very big on that right now.
  2. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Age is only important at QB if you are planning to build around the player or they are showing signs of age related problems like injury or David Carr like symptoms of shell shock in the pocket.

    McCown had a better year than Cassell, Daniel, or Campbell. He's in the 3-4 million club as a backup. There is a team out there that can afford that kind of money and will for McCown. He's not coming back.
  3. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I'm more optimistic than that because I don't think any team is gonna spend that on a backup QB unless they believe he may start for them if their young QB fails. At any rate if it goes beyond a $2 mil base with incentives my guess is the Bears are out of it and they'll work with Palmer or another free agent they may find. Trestman's offense is very QB friendly so finding a backup won't be impossible and if it's Palmer for around $750k we have the cap space to sign another player.
  4. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    at no time has a SAM had 100+(85 solo) tackles w/4 sacks and had it been called a bad year in a Lovie Cover 2 system especially w/a DL that was softer then a used kleenex. HH only had 7 sacks in his career, and never racked anywhere near 100 tackles, let alone 80+ solo. Nich Roach in the Lovie cover 2 had very similar #'s to Hunter, and his #'s w/the Raiders were very similar to Andersons and he signed a 4yr 13mil contract and Anderson got a 1yr 1.25 mil contract. Bears got the better deal by far.
  5. CaptainHookShot

    CaptainHookShot Rookie

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    Yeah, beginning with the quarterback position. A lasso becomes a noose in the nfl pretty quickly. It only takes a year or two, and sometimes less than that.

    Let's face it, this defense is shaping up to be another laughingstock-I'm not sure what additions could be made that wouldn't make me think otherwise. Usually when you go to rebuilding a defense it starts from day one with the new coach. That didn't happen and it's starting to feel all bungled up.

    So now we just have to sit back and wonder if our Cutler lead offense can overcome our defense. I am dubious, and frankly had wished we let Cutler walk for McCown and whoever wasn't going to cost big $. It just doesn't make sense to me. You hire the qb guru, then dump absurd money on a relatively unproven 30 year old with a track record of injury. You hire the qb guru so you don't have to spend the money on the qb, so you can spend it all on making a badass defense because your head coach is so busy scheming on offense. Now we get to pick through the FA pile of defensive has beens with little to no certainty about what we're gonna get, because we don't really know how to coach them anyways.

    Back to that Cutler run offense. Here is what it has to do, anything less is unacceptable: It has to drive the ball for extended periods of time, we're talking 10 minute drives that finish with 7, it has to have way fewer turnovers so that we score every time we get the ball, so that we put up monster points even with those long drives. If it can do that, then our defense will be fine. But if our O comes out like Cutler has for his entire career and posts an int and 6 points in the first two quarters with the defense on the field for 22 of those minutes then even Tebow and Jesus Christ crucified to each post of the end zone won't help us. Oh, and it has to crush on the packers and the lions.

    I was excited for McCown when he did what he did this past season. Anybody who watched knows that our season was over without him. I was also excited that it might have meant the Cutler experiment was over, in that we would use McCown and draft a qb and keep the position on the cheap. Looking at our aging d and how much work and money it's gonna need I thought it was a logical direction to head. To my dismay the Cutler era was only beginning.

    Before I bring out the Cutler fanboys from beneath their covers just hear out my last point on him and why I would have been happy to move on. Although they are different sports they are still sports, but if you follow Chicago sports then you know what the great ones feel like, what it is like to watch them play, how unselfishly they play, and why you need them to win.
    This is Chicago. I know the Bears qb has pretty much sucked forever, but that's no reason to lower the standards. And here are the standards, Payton, Toews, and Michael Jordan. Now, does Cutler fit in there? Just say those names to yourself and then add Cutler to the end of them. It's like a child's puzzle, which one of these does not belong? Why does it matter? Because our defense sucks cocks at shitty motel rooms for streaming porn vids whenever they are out of town, and when they are back in town,...Lord have mercy.

    I was thinking with Trestman we had a shot at getting a Tom Bradylike draft pick in here and establishing ourselves for the next 3-4 years before the big contract. But my GOD, we're stuck with smoking Jay.
  6. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    I don't know about looking at just the numbers like that. For Anderson to have the stats he did is because the defense was broken. In this case, don't look at the stats. Look at how the team played, and who is supposed to make the tackles in a Tampa 2 defense scheme. No one was in position because the MLB position was inexperienced and flawed, and our WIL was either a very heavy Briggs or another inexperienced rookie. The SAM is supposed to be on the field about 50% of the time and take on the TE and hold his ground at the point of attack for the WLB to make the tackle. Anderson was out on the field way more out so he got more tackles than the position should and his teammates weren't making the plays from the first opportunity resulting in huge run gains. It should be our WLB having the plays funneled to him to make the stop. We were awful in defending the run last year, and it was a result of poor front 7 play, not just front 4.

    Roach got the contract he did because he can play MLB for the Raiders. On a bad Raiders team, from what I have read, Roach was one of the bright spot on that team. Anderson was not the better deal, because he could not play MLB or we would have lined him up there once D J Williams went down. Our D would have looked a lot better if we had a capable linebacker in the middle who was experienced in Lovie's system, because our DC was not but was being asked to run his system with Lovie's terminology. That had to have felt like being forced to teach Algebra in German when you don't speak German and you suck at math.

    There's a reason why Anderson could be had for 1.25 million for one year, and why he was cut from the Panthers. He's bad at run defense and limited to where you can play him. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him in a functioning defense, but with Emery moving Shea to SLB, I'm gonna guess nepotism will win out and Anderson is out unless if he is not making very much money. I don't know where else he can line up in this defense if he's not the SLB.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  7. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    When part of your argument is listing names of great players who don't play quarterback or football in general, then asking whose name doesn't belong, you have a poor argument. Once you added Payton's name to your list, no other Bear player belonged in that list. Who the hell is playing that can measure up to Payton in a Chicagoan's heart? If your standard is that Cutler is supposed to be as great at QB as Payton was at RB, that's fucking impossible by any standard.
  8. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    WNML, I'm fully aware of what the SAM is supposed to be in the tampa 2, my point was that Anderson did well MORE then he was expected to, and racked up similar #'s to a guy playing at least part time MLB on a similarly bad D who was getting 4x's the amount of pay.

    Anderson was a lone bright spot on a bad team D most of the year, and when the D was merely average(before the inj's racked up) he was still playing well. Nothing about him this year was bad, except for the non fumble recovery which was just a stupid mistake, a mistake that everyone on the field made except for the best player in the game(Aaron Rogers).
  9. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    I'm not quite sure why Anderson was available in the first place to be quite honest with you. If not for the Panthers cap problems he would probably still be there. This is a guy who has racked up 130 and then 145 tackles, before totaling 75 in an injury shortened 2012. So to say that the only reason he got the number of tackles he did because the line sucked is disingenuous and untrue. Briggs and Williams going down certainly hurt him though. The reason why he didn't slide to the Mike is because he is not familiar with the position in the system we were running. Unlike Roach and Williams he never played it before so why would we want to take a guy who has never played a position and put him there? That makes zero sense. It is obvious by their comments and moves thus far that the coaching staff and front office want players who are flexible and can play multiple positions, which is why they prefer Williams over Anderson at this juncture. Was he a stud against the run? No, but he wasn't terrible.
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  10. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Historically speaking our SAM was only on the field 50% of the time because it would make zero sense to take a guy like Urlacher or Briggs off the field in nickel situations. That obviously wasn't an issue this year.
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  11. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I'm convinced that without a top defense the Bears have no chance of winning a championship. In fact they'd struggle to even get that far because the only teams who have are teams who've been led by the best QBs in the entire NFL and without a great defense they usually lost.

    As far as Cutler goes he's not in the same league as those guys but he's still a top ten QB based on his passing skills. He still needs some fine tuning on his mechanics and his reads but that's what Trestman and Cavanaugh are for. I still believe Chicago hasn't seen the best of Jay Cutler yet. I watched him for 3 years in Denver, two of which he was the starter and played all 16 games, and what I saw was a guy who was a cut above a lot of other QBs. I saw Tom Brady play in Denver in his rookie year and although they are much different in style I saw much the same.

    I'm not saying he's an equal of Brady or Manning or even Rodgers but he's more than good enough to win a championship with and although the price tag for signing his was steep it was pretty much a market level deal and it was very cleverly done. It's essentially a three year deal with options to extend it. If Cutler can't win big and we've got another QB in the pipeline to replace him he'll be released or traded with no cap penalty unless they decide to restructure the deal. McCown is a very good backup but hell would freeze over before you'd win a championship with him and that's what Emery says he's after and now.

    That being the case now that he has his offense set and his QB under wraps he'd better get busy on his defense and make better personnel decisions on that side of the ball than he's done so far. He's got a one to two year window to make them a top ten defense again and the clock is already ticking. They can win a championship with Cutler but not without a top defense. No one can.
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  12. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I've thought about this a lot (over the past week or so in particular). I understand a lot of people think the new Trestman offense can take us to the promised land with a 2nd rate defense. I just don't believe that thinking is sound. Frankly, I don't think we'll win our division with a healthy Green Bay team led by Aaron Rodgers - if all we have is a 2nd rate defense. We are going to need a pretty stout defense to go with that Trestman offense.

    Having a good offense AND defense is not mutually exclusive if you have a solid GM and scouting department in place. Sure, one component will be better than the other. But that doesn't mean you can only have one decent unit out of the two. I'm hoping Emery does very well here in Chicago feeding the talent pipeline for offense and defense.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  13. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Your WIL should be the surest tackler on the team. The SAM comes off the field when in the nickle because his main role is to take on the tight end in a running situation while the extra corner is obviously for passing downs.

    Anderson got more playing time because teams were always running against us because we could not stop it, and because he had the green dot on his helmet while Briggs was on the sideline because Bostic apparently cannot relay plays in the huddle.

    He was bad for the past two years against the run in Carolina, and he was bad against the run here.
  14. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Boy did you ever hit home on this one brother. This is exactly what I saw and I highlighted what I thought were the most important points.

    1) Anderson wasn't playing SAM the way it's played in that defense and there were gaps on that defensive left you could have driven a semi through. That SLB should have the least amount of tackles of any of the LB and instead he had the most. Unfortunately many of them were 5-10 yards downfield. His job was to seal that RT gap and turn plays back inside to the pursuit and he failed.

    2) Roach was a far better SAM because he understood his role and he played it well. He was also a decent MLB. Too many Bears fans compared him to Urlacher and that was not a fair comparison. Urlacher was much bigger and until the last year or two much faster but that didn't mean Roach wasn't a competent SLB/MLB and in Oakland he proved that.

    3) Anderson is a decent cover LB but a bad at run defense which is why he was let go and also why he came cheap. This is a perfect example of Phil Emery not having a proper grasp of defensive football. If you plan on playing that same defense the team has been running then if he was gonna let Urlacher go maybe he should have kept Roach around or found another SLB who could handle the responsibilities required of him in that defense. Anderson wasn't able to even come close which is why there was absolutely no talk of his returning even before the decided to move McClellin and Bostic to compete at SLB.

    Phil Emery has made some HUGE personnel mistakes on defense that so far he's been forgiven for because of the way the offense has performed but the Bears have always won big when they've had a dominant defense and if Emery doesn't restore that fans will calling for his scalp soon enough just like they did with Angelo.
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  15. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Then why are you so impressed by stats put up by the SAM? In our scheme, the SAM is not supposed to rack up stats. It's like having a cornerback with a lot of tackles. It means the defense was malfunctioning at a basic level. Somebody eventually has to make the tackle. So it was Anderson 10 yards down the field after Greene got taken away in a wash of blockers so we could give up 161 yards per game on the ground. That's not something to look at positively. I do like how he got after QBs from his position. But his primary role is run support, and anyone could run against the Bears last year.

    I would not mind seeing what he can do with guys next to him that are healthy and know what they are doing. No way was he a better player than Roach would have been for the Bears, and I do not see him as an essential signing like Jennings was.

    As for Roach, it was plainly obvious the Bears lacked Tampa 2 experience at the MLB because they were losing the chess match at the LOS. I'd say to just look at the contract differential, but I'm sure you'll comment that the Raiders are dumb with their money and we are smart. Anderson was available for the Raiders to sign, but they immediately moved on Roach when FA broke.

    Our run defense was last in the league. The Raiders were 12th. It's not about individual stats when your defense is historically bad. Did Anderson do his main role at a high level? The team stats say no.

    To accentuate his current value to the Bears. He's still a FA. You said Boggs was a moot point when he was not under contract. Well, the Bears signed Boggs before Anderson.
  16. VJ18

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    I'm 100% ok with letting him go, shes a system guy and will flop anywhere else. I mean he also did have a great line and two of the top 13 best wr int he game, I'm ready for us to draft someone late or pick up a FA on the cheap and fix those fundamentals
  17. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Anderson got the most playing time because he was the only linebacker who stayed healthy all season! Secondly, why would you take a linebacker who is solid against the pass off the field in passing situations. Please explain to me how that makes an iota of sense? Lastly, he was not bad against the run his last 2 years in Carolina. He wasn't the best, but he wasn't bad. This board seems to love to operate in extremes and ignore fact. A player can be decent at something, he doesn't have to either be great or terrible. Is James Anderson an elite linebacker? NO, I don't think anyone is saying that, but he's pretty damn solid.
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  18. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The system he played in at Carolina was far different than the one the Bears played and weneedmoreline hit the nail on the head. Maybe I should rephrase a bit an emphasize that while Anderson probably isn't the worst run LB around he wasn't the right guy to play SAM in that defense. He's more of a WLB and they played him there some of the time after Briggs went down which also added to his tackles. At SLB he's not supposed to make the tackles he's supposed to contain and seal the RT gap. The MLB, WLB, and backside pursuit make most of the tackles. He played the position like he played it in Carolina which is why they kept saying some of the defense wasn't playing their "run fits" (first time I ever heard that term) correctly and Anderson was one of those most guilty of that.

    I never said he should have played MLB I referred to that fact that he did not play MLB whereas Roach had and so had DWill. Anderson played relatively well in space and in coverage but that wasn't his role in that defense. He ended up making far too many tackles in space partly because of the failure of McClellin to seal the edge or get off blocks and partly because he wasn't doing it either. There was a total failure of that defensive left to play that defense that way it was designed to be played. I'll admit that injuries played there part but the rest was playing two guys at positions they weren't capable of playing. The majority of the big running plays the defense allowed went right through those two guys.

    Let's just settle it by saying that Emery made another misjudgment in how he handled restructuring that LB core once he let both Roach and Urlacher go. Maybe it should have been one or the other, not both, but it's water over the damn now. They want DWill back not only because he can play MLB but also because he's a far better LB than Anderson if he can stay healthy. What's done is done but from now on Phil Emery needs to do a lot better job or personnel selection and management than he's been doing and I believe even he would admit to that.
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  19. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    This just isn't true. He was let go because Carolina was cash strapped and had no cap room, and they had Luke Keuchely, Tommie Davis, and John Beason. It's not like they didn't have some players at linebacker. By the way, Tommie Davis moved to the SAM position for Carolina this year and was second in tackles...just saying. I recognize the responsibilities historically speaking in our defense, but the fall off in our run defense was not solely because James Anderson was in our lineup. James Anderson, believe it or not was tied for first in tackles for a loss on the team.
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  20. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    I'm aware how the defense works, I played it. The problem is one guy not doing his job effects how the other guy does his job. I think if the unit had remained healthy this would be a different discussion.

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