Mel Tucker Will Return

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by The Benjamin, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. GermansbombedPH

    GermansbombedPH Pro-Bowler

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    it wasn't his Defense and he needed to play more the Lovie D than he wanted. Not sure if I like that.
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  2. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    I still don't think it is. You think what Wilson did last week is similar to how Manziel plays the game? Really? Or is just because Wilson is a mobile QB?
  3. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    You're making the grand assumption that he did not do those things! How do you know? You think you know because the LB's and line continued with their poor play, but you don't have slightest of ideas of what went on behind the scenes. Perhaps Tucker did all the things you say he should have done, and this is now the end result. I will suggest that you take a step back though and stop trying to compare football to the business world...they are two separate animals. Coaches have limited time with players and are limited with what they can do with them, particularly once the season begins. It's not as cut and dry as you would like to make it appear. Having experienced both worlds, business and football, and having been a player and coach I can tell you one is nothing like the other because of the limitations I've mentioned above. At the end of the day, the position coaches were held accountable for their failures and fired. You're not firing position coaches mid season...that just doesn't happen. Lastly, Tucker has never served as a line coach or a lb coach. He was a DB coach, and a very good one at that, so to expect him to swoop in and start coaching a position that he doesn't coach is foolish, and probably not a good idea. Thats why you hire people. He obviously didn't see what he wanted from the two coaches...one of whom worked with the head coach in the CFL, so he did not recommend they retain their employment.
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  4. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I know that is a strong judgement of their play, but they are not NFL material IMHO. Maybe as backups you could do worse. Maybe. But they hurt our team when they played. In a sense it was similar to how J'Marcus Webb hurt our team when HE played. People made excuses for his play too, but in the end it was pretty clear that he was hurting our team and we moved on from him. The same thing will happen (I hope) with Wright and Conte. We need to move on. They hurt our team.
  5. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Eh...I don't know that it is obvious as you're making it seem. Did they hurt our team last year when they played and everyone was lauding Conte, and excited about what he could turn into? Let's be real here, Chicago fans love a whipping boy, and he seems to be it right now...unfairly in my opinion. As I said, did they have bad years? Yep, but as a former player and coach I'm looking at the reasons why their play was poor, and why there was a fall off from last year...particularly for Conte. The only way I replace Conte is if I can get somebody better...that goes for any position. I think we should look to sign Ward to play SS, and improve the line in the draft and I think you will see Conte return to form. As I said...in football, someone else playing poorly can sure as heck lead to you playing poorly.
  6. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    The DL is the biggest question, but I think the DL coach's failure to produce marketable advancement in Shea over 2 years is what cost him. The LB's coach lost his job b/c Bostic/Greene REGRESSED, if all they had done was flatline I think he stays.

    Tucker's job is not to develop talent during the season, it's to develop gameplans. So the questions becomes, were the gameplans solid, but not executed properly? In Emery/Tresty's judgment the gameplans were solid and the execution was the issue. The execution is on the assitants b/c they are the ones that are supposed to develop the players during the year.


    Again people seem to ignore that the D was a top 10 D before the inj's hit, it might not have looked like it, might not have felt like it, but it was. That means that when Tucker had the players, they were doing their job. When he no longer had the players, everything fell off the cliff.
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  7. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Because it IS a business. Each business has its own individual challenges. Some of the challenges facing the football managers are they ones you have described. Other businesses have their own. If the managers are not able to cope with their industries particular challenges, then they need to seek employment in another area.

    I don't know he did not do those things. What I do know is that either he did not, he did not do them effectively, or he did them effectively and the people beneath him were not able to do better despite the corrective measures.

    First, the last option is a .3333 chance. Secondly, if that .33333 chance is in fact what happened, then you have to take a look at there being 11 players (more actually with rotation considered) and the position coaches who all failed rather than one person. You do the math. the odds are much more in favor of Tucker being at fault at least a little. More like a lot of you look at the odds.

    You can defend him all you want, but it does not add up. And I have not seen too many articles that have come to his strong defense. Many people are sceptical of his being retained and rightfully so. Even if the WHOLE problem was those two coaches that were let go (and I doubt it), it was still his fault.
  8. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    BiH, right now all you are doing is rationalizing your original belief that Tucker was, is the problem and should have been fired. When there was less then a .333333 chance of it actually happening. Realities you are not allowing for:
    D ranked 9th before inj's happened, you might not like it, or agree w/what you remember, but it is what it is.
    No coach can overcome a decimated front 4, let alone the loss of key players behind them(2 lb's, 1 probowler, 1 probowl cb).
    DC/OC/HC DO NOT develop players throughout the year, they are building schemes, it's the people below him who develop talent. You want a business approach, fine, guess what in the call center I work in, the Dept managers don't get fired b/c the reps on the floor cannot do their job, the Section manager does. In that scnerio the DM is Tucker, and the SM's are the assistants. It's even more so in pro football, when as butkus3595 pointed out that the coaches have limited time to work w/the players, they are now limited time they have pads on and can have actual contact. The Assistants job was to teach them gap integrity, and proper tackle form not Tuckers, and that was the problem everyone was complaining about.
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  9. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Well Ric, all of this back and forthing is not really meaningful. Everyone takes the data they are given and breaks it down in their own way by choosing that they feel are the relevant data and those that are not and them come to their own conclusions. Nothing will be proven until next year. I think the D will be better next year. It has to be. People will be back from injury and we will have new talent.

    I do not think that we will get the most out of any defense while Tucker leads it, no matter who we have. And if they are good next year I have no way to prove that because the only way would be to go back in time with a better DC and compare results. Obviously, not going to happen. If the D underachieves next year, it will be a simple conclusion. If it does well but not as well as it should then it once again becomes a matter of personal opinion.
  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    If the D underachieves next year, then you can go back and say, hey see it wasn't just the inj's or the assistants. But IF they are sitting at an average level then I think you can say, hey Tucker might not be a great DC, but he's doing good enough.
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Not my style Ric
  12. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    doesn't have to be your style, it merely is what it is. In pro sports talent does matter, and Tucker lacked it. you can go back to Jax and say he sucked there...I would point out that Jax also lacked talent, now as the D is rebuilt it should not longer be a talent issue(unless Emery is the anti Angelo) and even in just 1 yr you should be able to tell if the guy knows what he's doing or not.

    Much like the Cutler contract it's over, but we all will be able to go back and say if it worked or not, if it was a good choise or not, but it will all have to take time to know any of this or not.
  13. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I agree with that, and it does apply to our defense problems. It's a multi-faceted problem that goes beyond our safety woes. But the safety woes are certainly part of the problem.
  14. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    First off...football is a game...a game that people happen to make money off of. The GAME has nothing to do with the business end of it in terms of how one goes about preparation. No coach prepares for a game or practice wondering whether this will make the team money. I'm not saying it's incorrect to be skeptical...heck I have my doubts as well, what I'm saying is none of us knows what goes on behind the closed doors at Halas Hall, and I am only speaking from my experience. Yes it's the managers job to get his underlings to perform their job, and it is up to them to do it satisfactorily. If that doesn't occur, guess what happens? They get fired, as has occurred. Either way you slice it, it's not Tuckers job to coach the lb's and dl. His job is to coordinate the defense, thats his chief job/responsibility. He's not absolved of fault, but it seems like steps are being taken to improve the situation. As for articles to his defense, I'll put more stock in the players who have come out to his defense, particularly Peanut Tillman, but if you must have articles:

    http://www.chicagonow.com/bears-bac...y-retaining-defensive-coordinator-mel-tucker/

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chicag...ve-coordinator-mel-tucker-173800928--nfl.html

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chicag...ping-mel-tucker-defensive-193700205--nfl.html

    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4690007/four-downs-keeping-tucker-good-call

    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4689919/firing-tucker-would-be-bad-move
  15. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Prediction:
    Major Wrong is a goner. No way theBears offer him a contract (he's a FA).
    Conte will get one more shot to stick next year (he's on the final year of his rookie deal). He will make the team but probably won't be the starter at FS.

    And I love the idea of locking down SS by signing Ward and letting Conte earn or fail to earn his job in preseason.
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  16. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Yeah, thats kind of where I'm at with it. I think Conte can turn it around, Wright is not gonna be brought back. I think I'd rather spend the 14th pick on someone up front or on a corner over Clinton-Dix...but I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with him either.
  17. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    IMO Major Wright has always been a crappy SS. He had a marginal, decent year in '12 but otherwise he's been pretty much a bad angle/bad tackler guy all 3 seasons he's started. There is absolutely no reason to offer him a second contract.

    Conte on the other hand seemed to hold promise in his first two seasons and then fell off a cliff in '13. It's true the play of the 7 in front of him declined hugely too but he definitely made a lot of bonehead plays. Because he's on the last year of his 3rd round rookie contract, there's little to be gained by cutting him loose. He's not expensive and offers no cap relief if cut (a replacement would cost just as much). Sign Ward to lock down SS, draft a FS in rd 3-4, and let Conte fight for a job between a draftee and a cheap vet signee. Loser becomes the reserve.

    And yeah I agree about the 1st round. The DL takes priority over the secondary unless the player quality is clearly different.
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  18. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    LOL, well no common ground here. You need to pitch your concept to the 32 owners that have hundreds of millions INVESTED in their teams and have this stubborn persistence of continuing to treat their teams as a business for which they are looking to get a return.
  19. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Do the owners coach the team? Or did you not read the rest of my post?
  20. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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