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Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Sep 26, 2013.
It isn't all about sacks. Sacks are great, but it isn't the end all stat.
Okay,I did watch the replay. I don't know how liberally they define a "pressure" but I didn 't see Peppers get a finger on BigBen's body all day. Others did, but I don't recall Peppers touching him. So, I dispute the "4 pressures" stat. I also did not see him even getting doubled much. Adams handled him one-on-one. That was also the case when Peppers beat Adams to get his one tackle in the game. As for the fumble return, Adams had him pushed wide and out of the play if the fumble had not occurred, but the ball luckily fell into his hands. Give him an "A" grade for happening to be standing in the right place at the right time. Anyway, I watched the game twice, and I remain underwhelmed by our $84 million man. Yes, it's not all about sacks, but he is also not making tackles, assists, or blocking passes. In my book.Collins gets the top grade for this game.
Stats are supplemental by nature, so I tend to shy away from the norm of some convos that rely on them too much. Sack totals are never in question to me either. Pressure includes a myriad of things & with DEs that also involves collapsing pockets with containment in mind especially against mobile QBs.
Peppers is showing either another year on that body or a slow start from early camp injuries or a combination of both. I'm concerned but not overly so...yet. I'm more concerned of the DL as a whole not being disruptive enough/opportunistic as a unit. Too many plays were individually good but not having the finishers stepping up to close it out. Coordinating a DL rush is as important as synchronizing a OL unit. Both obviously need work & I'm confident this staff can do it from what we've already seen.
Just like all the talk about how weak the secondary is against the pass. A good chunk of those Pitt yards were also the bend/don't break approach we were in playing with the lead i.e. making them use up clock trying to drive the ball. I was never a fan & would like to be more proactive than reactive but it is what it is. As far as the DL pressure, quite a few plays were made from Big Ben's ability to move in the pocket/shed tacklers also. I don't discount the fact that he's a top QB in this league & he's going to have his way with at times no matter what. Waiting for grade outs will ultimately tell more of a tale with me.
We were a hair of from finishing some plays which is a good sign. Each game we've gotten a little closer to getting closer to having better pressure to allow the secondary to not having to hold receivers too long & being a bit more aggressive. Tucker's use of blitzes have bought us some time but of course we can't go the year playing river boat gamblers. Guess I'm still of a mindset that we're early in the year & the balance between solid DL pressure & tighter secondary coverage is still attainable.
Better than Wright?
Remember, they also graded Webb as the best Bears OL last year.
David, I too have watched that game multiple times. I believe PFF's grades are a better indication of Pep's contributions in that game. I understand where you are coming from on this, and I agree that Peppers needs to perform even better. He obviously doesn't have to score touchdowns in every game. But he does need to get some sacks and hits on the QB.
But he is doing a lot of things that are incredible. Very few players in the NFL can do what he does. Equating Collins with Peppers play is laughable though. Collins is a guy with potential, and he does well for a journeyman defensive lineman. Keep in mind there is a reason why he didn't stick on his previous two teams. But that doesn't mean he's a bum. He's not.
We need to upgrade the defensive line in the off-season. In the meantime, all of our DL players need to perform better. I'm wondering if the scheme is needing improvement too. Coaching can be a factor in the results (or lack of) that we are seeing in games.
But Peppers play is the least of our worries now. He is an incredible player. We'd be totally screwed if our 2nd Pro Bowl player on the DL, were not there. It's about all we have going for us there now. An army of Collins' players won't do squat for us. They are role players at best, while on the other hand, Julius Peppers is a Pro Bowl player, with freakish talent - a top DL in the NFL.
There "is" a difference.
I agree with you about the talent difference between Collins and Peppers JABF, but you cannot deny that Pep has been a step slow so far this season. What the cause is, I do not know, but he is not having the same impact he has had the last two years. Hopefully he continues to improve, because we are going to need him this season. Wootton and Shea are not enough to get our usual top play out of the front four.
I agree with you 100%. And the good news is that in the last game he looked much better.
He had the flu the week before that, so I'm giving him a pass on that game. He was so sick they sent him home and wouldn't let him practice. But last game he looked much better, and we sure needed that touchdown he scored.......that game was not in the bag until he scored that TD. That "sealed the deal" for us that night.
Regarding Collins, I'm not dissing the guy, and I'm mighty glad we have him. At this early point in his career he's a tier-3 player, an average player who has the potential to be a tier-2 player (better than average). He will never be a tier-1 player (elite Pro Bowl player....one of the very best in the NFL at his position).
Peppers is a tier-1 player. A physical freak with incredible skills & a lot of football IQ. One of the best in the NFL. Elite.
He won't score touchdowns every game, or have multi-sack games all the time, but he's a player that other teams have to build their game plan around. They HAVE to devote 2 players to double-team him on a regular basis - and at times they have to devote a 3rd player to chip him when he fights through the double-teams to pressure the QB.
Pep is still an exceptional player.
If we did not have him RIGHT NOW, with the DL players we have now, who are very underwhelming - we'd be 100% screwed. Love having a project player like Collins, and every team needs guys like him. Average players who fill out a roster. But don't ever equate him with Julius Peppers. It's like comparing a 3rd tier UFA quarterback with an elite Pro Bowl QB. Hate to burst people's bubble here but there is a difference. We'd better be thanking our lucky stars that we have Pep playing on this mediocre DL.
Next draft, Emery needs to fix the DL, like he fixed the OL this year.
Can the Bears line up Pep on o for a few plays to help slap Suh around ?
Just a few ,... :D
I'm really hoping Long can keep Suh off of Cutler. Suh would love to end Jay's season or career in front of the home crowd Sunday. He likes to hurt (and break) people.
Goodell needs to take Suh out the next time he injures somebody with a dirty hit. Of course that doesn't help the poor sap who gets hurt. I just hope it's not Jay.
How many more mediocre performances by Peppers will it take? I said no more excuses after game #2. We are going into game #4. What will be said if he doesn't touch Stafford? As for Collins, all I said is that I'd give him a higher grade in the Steelers game. I'll stand by that.
I have a technical question for anyone who may actually know the answer. What is the official definition of a "pressure"? If Peppers had 4 pressures, then I don't understand the definition of the word. Here is an example: The QB takes a 7-step drop. The DE takes an outside route and the tackle pushes him out the backdoor. As DE gets close to QB (but doesn't touch him), the QB steps up in the pocket and completes a pass. Does the DE get credit for a "pressure." It seems that is how they count them.
I prefer "QB hits" as a statistic. QB throws the pass but gets dropped hard on his ass by DL. I know how to count those!
Agreed. It's not all about sacks, and my complaint is not all about sacks. It is also about tackles, assists, deflected passes, QB hits -- all of which were sore]y lacking again. He had only one tackle and zero in those other stats. Yes, that is a heck of a performance.
I admit that I don't understand what PFF calls a "pressure," but I do know what my eyes are seeing. What will be said if Peppers doesn't touch Stafford? Or against the Giants on October 10 -- who have terrible tackles?
Hopefully we see great play in this next game. Actually, we need a stellar performance out of both of our lines Sunday. I'm hoping both the defense & offensive lines step up bigtime.
Suh needs to be TAKEN OUT!.....Not out of the game....I'm talking "return evil for evil"!!
We saw what Suh did to Jay last year. That must be avoided at all costs. If Suh gets his hands on Cutler, he will try to injure him. If I were Trestman, I'd tell Long to hold Suh as much as necessary to protect Cutler. No problem.
I am still curious why anyone takes Pro Football Focus' rankings and grades so seriously
I was curious enough myself to look up their website for their definition of pressures. It means "sacks, hits, or hurries." By THAT definition, nobody should take their Peppers grade seriously IMO. Of course, a "hurry" is more open to subjective interpretation than a "sack" or a "hit".
They also graded Webb out to be the Bears best OL last year.
Well, they didn't have much to choose from. Webb's competition for their "honor" were guys like Carimi, Louis, Spencer,Williams, Davis. Except for Garza, that whole crowd has shipped out of Chicago.
LOL What's wrong Benji...don't like that Peppers played like a badass against the Steelers?
Not that, I just cannot take a site's grades seriously that actually said Webb was good