Should the Chicago Bears Let Go of Jay Cutler?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Wolfman, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. JPosh2012

    JPosh2012 Pro-Bowler

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    I think even if they bring back McCown they need to draft a QB. Why?

    Easy this is one of the best QB drafts ever and this is a golden chance to groom Cutler's replacement.
  2. rich1978

    rich1978 Veteran

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    Whatever happens with cutty, I'd be drafting a QB in the second round this year. Someone like McCarron would be made for Trestman and may be available mid round in the second given the plethora of other QB talent available. He's a winner, he is smart, he plays a system and he doesn't get flustered. He'd be a great pick
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  3. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    No. It's too much of a gamble to trust a rookie or McCown.

    Random, but relevant: I love how people point to Cutler's career turnover rate(108 INTs, 62 fumbles through 101 games), while neglecting to mention McCown's (45 INTS, 42 fumbles through 57, only 35 of which he started).

    Also, why do people think letting Cutler walk will allow us to "get more defensive free agents"? The best FA's are going to be expensive, regardless, and we still wouldn't be able to afford many of them, AND the heavy use of free agency to replenish your roster has proven NOT to work, repeatedly. Sure, you can get a few every now and then, but the draft is where the perennial favorites find their players.
  4. A-11

    A-11 Veteran

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    Henry, your random thought was not relevant lately. That is why.

    I hope they tag Cutty. I would not like to see him walk away this off-season, especially if is just to carrying bags filled with five years worth of guaranteed money to the bank. Honestly, though I will support what ever Emery and Trestman decide.

    Free Agents are just a loan, some can turn a profit, but you only want them if needed.
  5. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    How does that address the random thought of ignoring McCown's turnover rate, while complaining about Cutler's?

    I'm not disagreeing with you on Free Agents, at all. What I'm saying is, is the thought that "we'll save so much money by getting rid of Cutler, to spend on defense" is bad for two reasons:

    1. You just neutered the offense, to help the defense. What sense does that make?
    2. Those who believe releasing Cutler, so we can "get better defensive free agents" really need to clarify their position, as, on the surface, it would seem the implication is there that the talent would be guaranteed to be there, that that talent would fit here, and that we wouldn't break the bank trying to get elite players. Free Agency, and trades should be used to fill the holes on the roster that the GM doesn't think the draft will fill.
  6. A-11

    A-11 Veteran

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    I was taking the what have you done for me lately view: I'm sure if you accounted for snaps you would find McCown has a higher career turnover rate. With the numbers provided Jay is at 1.68 turnovers per game, and McCown is at 1.53. Which is pretty close even before you consider Josh starting 35 of the 57.

    This year: 1.57 > 0.50 It is football and four games is not much of a sample size, but that is a 2/3 reduction. Even if by luck, it has been relevant this year.

    McCown (1 int, 1 fum in 2013 through 4 games (scratch wk. 10)) vs. Cutler (7 int, 4 fum in 2013 through 7 games (scratch wk. 7))
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  7. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    I'm not arguing against that at all, but the argument of Jay's career turnover rate as a reason against him is dishonest, if one does not include McCown's.
  8. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Henry, biggest thing is that apparently McCown was able to correct, at least temporarily, whatever issue he had, while Cutler is still doing the same stupid ish.

    also, while the team might not be able to stockpile multiple top D FA's, and ya it's not the way to build a team, it's still one more then you would have gotten. I'm not for letting Cutler walk, FT him, and I agree I'm fine w/whatever they do you have to trust this regime right now, but to think there is no merit in letting him walk is also false.

    There is merit in getting a young qb and just letting them have at it, while being backed up by a vet, especially if next year is a loss as you need to fully rebuild the D, and then next year actually start to build depth on both sides of the O; that 2nd or 3rd year is when this team should be truly ready to complete, and at that point, Cutty, or a rookie next year would both be experienced enough to take a complete team to the SB.
  9. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    One thing people neglect to mention, in regards to McCown, is that, due to his physical limitations, he's forced to make the shorter throws. I will say though, he has been throwing tighter spirals these past 2 games (Wind affected Flacco, McCown, not so much).

    I still don't agree that there is merit in letting him walk, at all. Simply because Emery and Trestman are betting their careers on whoever comes next. With that said, if we DO release Cutler, I want us to pick up Jake Locker, keep McCown and have him compete with a rookie QB. I think the Titans would be idiots to let Locker go (but it looks like they're going to), and that kid, if he can stay healthy, will be a BEAST next year.
  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    If we brought in Locker, I'd have him competing w/a rook and letting McCown walk.

    Reality is that the arm of McCown is what limits him. He has played 1000% better then anyone would have ever guessed, and much safer w/the ball, but what you are seeing is that teams are playing closer and closer to the line b/c no one fears his arm over 20 yards. Other teams are going to do what Chi did to Clemmons, if Josh can beat you w/a deep ball, they'll be okay w/it, but they're going to shut down the short game and can the run game.

    McCown is always going to be limited in what they can do unless the D gives him a few gifts....it's really my problem w/Cutler too, for all his plusses, he seems to need the D to hand him a few gifts to get into the 30-40 pt range.
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    man Ric, I've never been impressed by McCown, but the man really clicks in this offense. He put up a lot of yards even in defeat yesterday. We did not lose because of McCown. We lost because of no D and an undisciplined team that got penalized at the worst time. Although I know there are many others that SHOULD be better than McCown (and I still can't figure out why he is so good either), but the reality is that the guy is doing very well. Why take a known good thing, take it away and roll the dice? I'm not for that strategy. We can do any number of things with QBs, but I'd say whatever we do. McCown needs to be in the plan as well.
  12. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    McCown lead O has not score more then 24 points w/out the D giving him free points. That is not enough to win games agianst good teams, backup or otherwise.

    No we didn't lose b/c of McCown yesterday, not even close, but we also wouldn't have won even w/a decent D effort(uner 24-28 points given up). And that is a problem.

    And he turned the ball over 2 times at the end of the game, ya it was already over but he still turned the ball over twice, so he didn't have a great game by any means. Then again no one did.
  13. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    Huh?

    The game was utterly and completely OVER by the time "McCown's turnovers" took place. I put that in quotes because the first was a jailbreak blindside strip sack he had no chance on and the 2nd was a fine slant pass that the DB ripped out of Jeffery's hands. Neither TO impacted the game's outcome in even the slightest way (other than dragging down McCown's QBR stats). The O supporting cast had completely quit by that point already. The game was over the moment the pathetic D couldn't get a stop and let yet another no-name RB march the whole field for a TD late in the 4th in what was then only a one-score game. McCowns "turnovers" were A) completely garbage-meaningless beyond stats alone and B) 90% on someone else.

    When it mattered--when the game was still reachable--when they was still a glimmer of hope that maybe just maybe the D could get a key stop or a takeaway--McCown was something like 32 for 41, 320 yrds, 2 TDs, and a QBR of 130.

    I don't know what else you could possibly ask your backup QB to do....what???

    Points? Lets see on that one.
    Stupid penalties erased 14 of them and Trestman's ongoing brain fart follies from inside the 5 (where he seems to struggle mightily as an offensive manager) cost 7 more. If not for the Rams giving us like 10 shots at it with penalties, we probably would have left that last TD on the field too. Lets not forget Michael Bush dropping a pass wide open that he could have crawled into end zone with too. None or very, very little of that was on McCown.
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  14. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    I guess we are going to have to see this differently.

    "McCown set a franchise record with 36 completions in the game, but threw his first interception of the season with 1:25 left. He completed 36 of 47 passes for 352 yards and two TDs. His passer rating was 102.4."

    That is not a rookie or backup QB record. That is a record for the Chicago Bears since the inception of pro football. He threw one interception and threw for 352 yards and two TD's. There were a couple he should have gotten if not dropped. His QB rating was 102.4

    I'd say he did extremely well. And close to walking on water for a BU. He did not lose us this game. The game was lost by allowing the Rams (who don't scare too many teams) to march up and down the field at will and by us having to leave several TD's on the table because of dumb penalties. You count in the scores that were negated by penalties and you stop even one of those Rams TDs by some semblance of a defense and it's a different game. No QB can throw and catch the ball at the same time. McCown more than did his job Ric. The D just allowed easy yardage. The Rams just are not all that good. An average D would have stopped at least two of those drives and not allowed as many run yards.

    I keep thinking about it, but for me it was in fact the D and the penalties. We can talk about coaching decisions, but while they factor into any game, the big two were D and penalties.
  15. billatter

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    A good starting QB, or a good backup like McCown, can win games when the rest of the team does their part. A great QB finds away to put the game on their shoulders and win it despite the rest of the team playing like crap.

    The question I would ask is this: "Can Cutler fit this definition of great?"
  16. tbear1

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    That's a trick question, right?
  17. billatter

    billatter Veteran

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    What do you think? ;)
  18. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    THAT's a trick question
  19. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    A lot of you guys are giving WAY too much credit to Josh McCown, and not enough to, oh I don't know, maybe the best quarterback coach and WR tandem in the league. If Trestman can create an efficient offense with McCown, he certainly can with Cutler. I'm also not interested in anyone's opinion who discounts the fact that Cutler has had 3 horrible offensive coordinators here, MANY horrible offensive linemen and WR's that would be a #3 at best, on another team, as reasons for why Cutler's mechanics have regressed over his time here. You cannot look at a player as if he's in a vacuum.
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  20. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    I think rather than discounting Trestman, the discussions happening around McCown are more due to controversy on McCown. I think pretty universally on the board (am I wrong?), most posters acknowledge that none of this would be happening without Trestman. So Trestman is a given. No reason to argue about that. McCown, it seems to me is more meaningful (in terms of discussion) because there is controversy in his value and his ability to win. There is even controversy in terms of whether or not to keep him (which I don't understand).

    Have you seen any posts advocating that Trestman is not able to develop QBs or that he needs to go? That's why not many discussions on Trestman. No controversy except maybe in some of his decisions, but no one is ready to throw out the baby with the bath water.

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