So What's The Book On Peppers?..............

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by soulman, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I agree 100% MP. I'm not denying any of that. Our defense is a total train wreck and Pep is part of it. There isn't an easy answer here. It would make me sick though, to waste millions and millions of dollars on a player who:

    1. Can't play well anymore and,
    2. Seems to take entire games off.

    I'd rather go a different route, but that's just my disgust over having $18 to $20 million dollars in cap space going to a guy who isn't worth a fraction of that money. Maybe we end up having to pay him anyway....we do kindof have a gun to our head with too many holes to fill. Of course that just makes me even MORE angry with our situation.

    What a mess.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  2. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I'd rather go a different route too. I'd like to magically trade Peppers and his residual huge cap hit to Houston for JJ Watt straight up. That will happen when pigs fly.

    Emery has to find an RDE replacement first and its not coming from the draft at #14 IMO. Hardy was franchised by Carolina. Bennett may not leave Seattle. Maybe Lamar Houston is an option. We will see soon. But it would be freakin' dumb to cut Pep cuz we're disappointed in him from last year until we have a succession plan in place.
  3. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I understand, and again, don't disagree. I'm not saying cut Pep because we're disappointed in him. Not at all. In the end (and I realize you know this) it's all about making the money work for you to build the best possible team within cap limitations. Taking an $18 million dollar cap hit this year, and $20 million dollars next year, for Peppers.......man, I'd stroke out. That's a chunk of cash. Some folks here didn't like paying that kind of money to Cutler, but at least he can still help the team. I'm not sure Pep can anymore. I'm just not seeing it.

    Soul, you started this thread. What's your take on Peppers?
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  4. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    No way Pep is staying at his current cap hit. He would need to accept a substantial pay cut to possibly stay. I don't think Emery is going to even open that can of worms until he sees how FA plays out first. The $18-20m cap numbers are purely temporary. They'll either be renegotiated or made meaningless by Peppers' release.
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  5. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    I am not pushing to keep Peppers at his current salary. I am merely presenting the case we may be better off if we can tear up the contract (extend) and negotiate a deal in the $5m to $6m a yr range as I stated earlier. We get a cap savings between 8 to 10 million and keep a starting DE, I agree he is on the downside but with other linemen that are NFL quality and not stopgaps like last yr. I think Peppers is still better than many opinions on this board. Its hard to be excited when the other team has a tackle, TE, RB, and a guard all taking turns blocking your every move because no one else on the line deserves there attention. After you get your butt whooped so many times you get tired so maybe he did lose interest and Emery will have to gauge the effort and fuel in the tank. I want a true DE who opponents worry about and I still believe Peppers is better than anyone we would replace him with, especially since Hardy got franchised. Is he worth the current contract_ HELL NO. We gave him a bonus and are on the books for $8MM no matter what we do with him. I just think it may be wiser to tear up the current deal and try to get a new contract in the 5 to 6 million range. Who else you going to get at DE to start that will make the impact Peppers can make. You can argue Bennett but he will cost you 8 to 10 million and another signing bonus. He has never had 10 sacks in a season by the way. 9.5 the best he has had, and is 27 yrs old. I do not see him as the answer. Keeping Peppers in a rotation and draft a DE he can tutor seems so obvious to me. The alternative is no DE pressure and we tried that before Peppers was acquired and we all know that worked out; We thought we had the worst DB's ever. Emery did not make this mess Angelo and his poor drafts did.

    Emery did a nice job turning the offense around and maybe we could debate if he put to much into the offense and not enough into the defense but this is where we are at. I asked earlier what your plan is or whats the alternative and nobody seems to have one other than cut Peppers. Seems nobody likes the plan of renegotiating a reasonable deal and clearing up cap space. We need a plan because Wootton will be gone and most want to cut are remaining DE. WE NEED 2 STARTING DE's and if we cut Peppers where are they coming from? Will they do better than Peppers, and how much they going to cost. 6 million to Peppers sounds reasonable, Approx. what Bennett made last yr, and is an alternative better than No Sacks from the DE position. The Bonus money is gone already the dead money no matter what we do so it comes down to signing Peppers and another starting DE or signing 2 starting DE's.

    Show me a a better alternative before you cut him, thats all I am asking for?
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  6. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Well done BSB. I was thinking around $5 mil since that's what Bennett got from Seattle as a rotational player at DT and DE but $ 6 mil wouldn't break that bank. I figured if they could get both Pep and Tillman with deals in the $4.5 to $5 mil range for two years but only guarantee this year that would secure two important spots, keeps some on field and locker room leadership in place, and give the Bears time to develop replacements for them.

    I believe Peanut has two more good years left in him and if they can platoon Pep and cut his snaps back significantly I think he can give two more good years as well. He may do as much or more damage playing less and even he hinted at that this past year. We all saw how he turned it on in a couple of games and if he's playing less he can probably bring it more often. As a part time player he knows they can't pay him nearly $14 mil but the question is what will he accept.

    I'm sure they've discussed some numbers with his agent so now it's all about Pep deciding what he wants to do. His agent is sniffing around to see what his market may be if he is released so the game goes on. One way or another they'll pick up a significant amount of cap space from whatever they do we just don't know yet whether it's $8-$9 mil or $14 mil. But I do think if he'll play for around $5 mil he's worth keeping as opposed to having to replace him.

    That's gonna be even more true if they'd rather replace Wootton with a bigger LDE. Anyway this was a great graphic showing the choices that are out there. :13_4_9[1]:
  7. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

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    I agree with what you're getting at, BSB. We need a viable succession plan in place before we cut Pep loose. His current contract is way too onerous a cap hit no doubt but....he's under contract. And no one else on the horizon is. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

    Pep may refuse a renegotiation/pay cut in which case there's no choice but to release him. Emery can cross that bridge after FA gets going. If he hits on a FA DE the organization wants, then it becomes a moot point and JP is a goner. If not, then he better be thinking about how to retain Julius. I don't want to be heading into the draft with just CornWash and Bass on the roster.

    I don't feel too sorry for Emery here because--my one quibble with your post--he put himself in this position by blowing the Shea pick when he could have had Chandler Jones. That was a huge mistake that has left the DE cupboard pretty bare.
  8. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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  9. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Thanks brother. I just needed a break to clear myself of all that went wrong last year and "get over it". Now I can focus on ideas that are a fix rather than repairing what couldn't be repaired. I'm still not a big Phil Emery fan but if he can do with the defense what he did with the offense last year that will go a very long way towards me believing in him again. Sometimes I think he's just as stubborn beyond belief as Lovie was and that's never a good thing in the long run.

    He seems to finally be willing to admit his mistakes and that's the first step to learning from them. So he gets another chance but in my world it's HIM whose on a "one year prove it" deal. After deciding to keep Tucker around after that debacle last year if that defense doesn't improve by leaps and bounds they oughta tie him to the Metra tracks at rush hour. Seattle proved once again that defense wins championships and if that's the business he's in then he needs to find one in a big hurry.
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  10. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    This is what I'm watching too. By the way, welcome back - I missed your posts a lot too. It's really too quiet here in the off season (and it seems to last forever). But, regarding Phil, I too am watching to see if he knows defense players, like he did on offense. I'm just observing and keeping an open mind here. I remind myself that there was a time when I believed Jerry Angelo was brilliant (seriously). I just wanted to "believe" we had a great GM. But over time I realized he was bringing in too many mediocre players. Now, I'm wanting to believe in Emery. But I'm going to withhold my opinion until I see a few years of his work, and part of that is seeing if he can rebuild the defense.

    Anyway, welcome back Soul. Glad you are here.
  11. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    Soul,

    We need fresh juice.
  12. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Gotta have the grocery money to buy the juice Jackie and last year old Phil was shopping the sales at The Dollar Store. We need impact players jackie and you can only afford a couple of those in free agency if that in addition to keeping a few of your own and you can't count on rookies to be that year one unless you get very lucky. Last year we did in round one but after that pfffttt. The year before he blew round one but scored in round two with Jeffery. If you can get one impact player out of any one draft you're doing good.
  13. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Thanks brother. I just had to take some time away and wash the frustrations of last year away. Besides what else was there to talk about except to beat the Cutler deal to death and I saw way too much of that in a few other places I visited where I could post incognito. There was just more emotion involved with all of it than my logical or analytical side could handle and I was getting too caught up in that so it was time for a breather.

    I'm watching too and the only thing that concerns me is his failure to realize that it's his defense that will win a championship for him not his offense. The offense can get you there like it did Denver and Manning but when that offense meets a defense that's an immovable object it will fail every time. The only thing that even kept us in that Super Bowl against Indy was the defense and STeams. It was the offense who gave it away.

    Emery needs to restock that defense in short order and getting rid of Lovie's guys left and right won't do it. They still need their skills and their leadership right now until they can find or draft replacements and that takes time. He can't get that all done in one year any more than he could with the offense. That offense had Marshall, Jeffery, Forte, and Cutler and McCown already so with the exception of Bennett all the skill positions were set. He got lucky with Long and Mills and made good moves with Bushrod and Slauson and fixed the line but he didn't have all the free agent issues last year he has this year. This looks like it's gonna be trickier.
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  14. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    They rebuilt the O line in 1 year they can rebuild the D line in 1 year sit back and watch the magic.
  15. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    Soul,

    In the new Pro-Bowl ... a rookie OL for DA BEARRSSE was playing.

    Thats what Emery did. The angle is can this be repeated on a DEFENSE that imploded ?

    Therin lays the proof ... a simple reflection of BEARS DEFENSE.

    OUR kind of BEARS defense though the years Soul.
  16. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The offense is still not 100% complete after 2 years. Recall that B.Marsh and AJ came year-1, the OL & TE position received attention year-2. They still need to find a more permanent solution for center, and also get a second receiving TE and swing tackle for the icing on the cake. Maybe get a different backup RB that costs less too.

    The D won't be fixed this year IMHO. Sure, I think they can take a serious step in the right direction this year, and in 2015 they will take another step. 2016 will probably be the icing on the cake for the D.
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  17. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    OK say you DTB but it took quite a bit of money and great luck with two draft picks to do it. Furthermore I don't quarrel with Emery's ability to find good offensive talent. It's his track record with defensive talent that concerns me. So far his moves there have ranged from barely passable to damn awful. So far not one of his defensive draft picks have lived up to expectations and overall his FA signings have been just fair. You can sit back and watch for the magic if you want but me, I'll be more on the edge of my chair watching.

    Drafting one DLineman who can play at a Pro Bowl level his first year would be a gift beyond anything I could imagine and if you recall Long was not originally elected to the Pro Bowl. Iupati was and Long took his place because of Iupati's injury. "No soup for you", LOL.

    Emery will not rebuild this defense in one year if he insists on getting rid of all of Lovie's top players as fast as he can. And I still believe that retaining Tucker was the wrong move. I also believe next January we'll be ready to ride him out of town on a Greyhound just like we all did this past January and maybe have Phil Emery driving the bus. Time will tell.
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  18. BSBEARS

    BSBEARS Pro-Bowler

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    FA signings fair_ Guess it depends if you look at Marshall as a free agent, we traded a draft pick to keep him from free agency. you could argue he was a free agent. Slauson was a good FA signing. DJ got injured so will hold judgement.. the others I would agree as fair

    I hope you are wrong on the draft. Seems Angelo could not get a break on offensive picks and Emery has nothing to stand on for defense. I still think the jury is out on Bostic and not sure what you expect from Greene in the 4th or Isaiah Frey in the 5th. But definetly need a stud or two with the first two picks this yr to prove he can pick defensive talent as well

    2012 draft- Basically agree with you here. barely passable to awful for defense anyway
    mostly not good McClellin will be out of draft position if he makes it at all
    Jeffrey nothing special yr 1 but yr 2 proved to be a great pick
    Hardin and Rodrigues both gone one sucked and one had legal issues. Emery never should have drafted them
    Isaiah Frey- Solid for rd 5 will never probably be a starter unless forced by injury. Contributed at Nickelback

    2013 draft: Jury still out on Defense.
    Long . We all appreciate what he has done
    Bostic: Started at MLB after injury to DJ. Still think he has some game Hoping he will be like Jeffrey. Bold print above
    Greene _ played less than Bostic but played some. Much like Bostic the Jury is still out could turn into a good pick for round 4
    Jordan Mills Offense starting RT.
    Cornelius Washington. Late pick not much expected
  19. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I think Bostic and McClellin will be good ball players once they get them playing the positions they should be. Bostic needs to be at WLB and McClellin at SLB. Personally I don't either of them is cut out for MLB so they should bring DWill back for now and look for a young prospect to back him and learn the position. As far as Greene goes if he can't play any better than he did last year I'd cut him in camp. There are guys on the roster now who can outplay him. Washington is an unknown and he was a project pick anyway so anything we get from him is a move in the right direction. I'll also give him credit for the Bass pickup. The kid has promise.

    Emery's offensive moves have been great. I have no quarrel there at all. But it's defense we need and there I am concerned because as good as he's been on restocking that offense he's been miserable at doing it on the defense.
  20. jackiejokeman

    jackiejokeman Pro-Bowler

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    I cant put McClellin on Emery ... that seemed more Lovie.

    Lets look at what happened ... Urls didnt take the contract ... Nick Roach walked.

    Oh and Geno Hayes split also ... an Emery sign ?

    In an over compensational move, HALAS HALL hired and drafted every LB in sight.

    Thats where we are at today gentlemen.

    Well in one year Emery made us the fifth best offense in the NFL.

    When we sucked at it before.

    Now if he can just do that for DEFENSE ...

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