Sounds like BMarsh wants to finish his career a Bear, doesn't want max money

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by MalagaBears, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Position Coach

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    No offense, but before repeatedly posting thoughts about contracts and numbers could folks please educate themselves a little bit about how cap & cash accounting works in the NFL? It's really not that hard for any serious fan to google a few articles and learn the basics.

    For weeks before Pep was released I was reading posts here about how he "was gonna get paid millions by the Bears this year even if cut". Geezus, read and learn the difference between guaranteed money and dead-cap money. Gets old explaining it over and over.
     
  2. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas
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    But why should we when you have us to set the record straight? :36_1_32v[1]:
     
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  3. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    Well that's just it. The teams now have to spend the majority of their cap money or be penalized for it. As long as the cap keeps increasing players salaries will go up. How crazy does it all seem now when Butkus's first deal was for about $50k a year and when Sonny Werblin signed Joe Namath for $400k for four years it was an international sensation with it's assorted claims that he was out to destroy pro football handing out a deal like that to a young college kid. Now the rookie minimum is more than $400k per year?
     
  4. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Position Coach

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    How much extra did Cutler get in bonus money this week again???
    :shoot:
     
  5. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    Aw geez Benji. You know it's true so why be a smart ass about it. We go through this same damn thing year after year. I started posting cap numbers and calculations nearly 10 years ago and then our old friend DaBears 54 took over. Nothing has changed much about the basics of it since then and when in doubt there are sources like Spotrac that produce fairly accurate summaries of these deals.

    It gets a little annoying after all these years when some don't take the time to understand how it works after it's been explained so many times. Ten years ago hardly anyone knew how it all worked but now a whole lot of people do because they took the time to understand it. How hard is it to understand the differences between cash received and cap accounting. Christ if a person can balance their fucking checkbook they should be able to do that much math. It's not that hard.
     
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  6. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    Nothing, he loaned it to Robbie Gould who then pays it back to Brandon Marshall who'll then take even less $$$ so we can extend Alshon Jeffery. It's kind of a creative version of money laundering to get around cap restrictions. :smilebig:
     
  7. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas
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    Forgive my smartass comments. I meant it as a laugh. I am not a numbers guy so I appreciate the work that everyone does to keep up informed.
     
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  8. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    SuperFan Member of the Month DBS Writer

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    It's a pyramid scheme and the money trail leads straight to Tampa Bay & Atlanta.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. lklrlolnlilklsox

    lklrlolnlilklsox Position Coach

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    I appreciate the sentiment, but I'll believe it when I see it.
     
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  10. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    :guinness: Well that's all I ever seem to do as numbers. Even music is all about numbers. Maybe I'm just more accustomed to it and it's already been a long week so today was a vacation day to post. Maybe another sticky on Capology 101 would help some understand the very separate and different accounting that goes on between what the checks are written for and how much of that counts against the cap and when.

    There's a lot more arcane stuff that goes on with rollovers of excess, credits for bonuses not earned, payment for those that were earned and all that stuff but it would be a little less of a headache if most simply understood how salary differs from a signing bonus or a roster bonus. If you guys want a sticky done I'll do it but not unless folks want it. I'm not trying to force the knowledge on anyone.
     
  11. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    There's no reason yet not to believe it because he has said it before in much that same way although never quite this specifically. I take it more to mean he'd be happy with what he's making now if he remains productive and earns it not that he's working for half that. Still, you aren't wrong. We'll see what happens when the rubber meets the road. If they have cap space left to do it all or need more cap space I would think they'd want to get him done this year and then extend Jeffery next year but we'll see.
     
  12. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas
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    I just realized I mess this up lol
     
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  13. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Position Coach

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    LOL, no worries.

    I've read stuff from "journalists" (who you'd think would bother to learn their stuff since it's ya know kinda part of their job as a sports reporter and all) that leaves me shaking my head. These guys are writing stuff to the public that belies their complete ignorance of how cash and cap accounting actually work. For example, it was recently reported that "after the Allen signing the Bears have $7.9m in cap space left and will need $5m of that for new draft picks".

    Really? Actually, that's not even close to correct in terms of cap space.

    Only the top 51 cap hits count against the cap until September or so.
    Most draft picks (past day the 3rd round at most) won't be in the top-51 in terms of their rookie year cap hits.
    Therefore they represent no new addition to the teams cap cost
    And those high draft picks that are in the top-51 by definition have to bounce someone else off the top-51.
    Therefore take their rookie year cap hit and subtract $500k or so to represent that player pushed off the cap roster.

    So it actually nets out to only $2.5m in new cap cost at most. The team still has millions of room left for a few depth signings + a reserve pool.
     
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  14. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    Oh oh, there's Lovie with that Steve Urkel look again. LOL
     
  15. soulman

    soulman Coordinator
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    Man I sure am glad I'm not the only one around here who gets it when it comes to this stuff. It's not that hard to figure out but it takes more time and research than raw knowledge and some people just don't want to do the front end work including a whole shit load of sportswriters who actually get paid to write the crap they do. I read far better insights and analyses from posters here and we aren't paid.

    Your explanation of how the cap works and affects the draft picks is a great example. Almost all of those guys making NFL rookie minimums fall below the top 51 salaries. Now that salaries are slotted it's not very hard to figure out how much cap room you're gonna need for those deals that will count against the top 51 and that's a whole lot less than it used to be.

    Those deals only count the rookie minimum from the day of he draft until the day they're signed so all a team has to have is enough cap space to cover the number of picks they have times the rookie minimum. Only after they're signed does the actual cap cost count. The Bears usually sign their guys quickly but other teams may wait until after June 1st when they can free up more cap space for those deals.

    Without keeping a running spreadsheet on it like we did at one time the best we can do is to get a ball park number of what the cap space is. I believe the league publishes those figures once at the beginning of the league year but whatever source is reporting after that is guessing too. Some guess far better than others but they're still just close estimates. The only guys on the Bears who know exactly are Stein and Emery.
     

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