Thurs Camp notes

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by riczaj01, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
    DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    23,082
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Ratings:
    +4,058 / 10 / -8
    ßearz ßuckz:
    2,315ß
    Please Register or Log in to Remove this Advertisement!
    MP but you cannot expect for Ellis to quit, McBride to bust his achillis and for Anderson/Wootton to get hurt. Wootton is day to day, he'll be fine for the season. But he WOULDN"T have been DEPTH. He would be starting AND holding Shea/Wootton from playing, those guys are the teams future, Izzy isn't and the team needs to know what they have in them for better or worse.

    I would have liked Izzy to, but the reality is he was replaceable...and already replaced.
     
    #31
  2. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,726
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Ratings:
    +1,730 / 2 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    786ß
    Ric, you're trying pretty hard to defend the decision to not retain Izzy (unless he was unwilling to sign with the Bears for a similar deal he took with Detroit which seems highly improbable). He's not likely to get any more playing time there then he would have likely gotten in Chicago. The DL is definitely a unit of strength for the Lions so it doesn't seem likely that they signed Izzy expecting anything more than depth/competition from him. He wasn't brought on to be a sure fire "starter".

    Ellis was signed after Izzy went to the Lions...and then quit unexpectedly. McBride was brought in earlier as insurance/competition and he promptly had a season ending injury before the first week of camp was completed. Now Anderson is banged up and he hasn't been nearly as productive a veteran as Izzy was. None of these guys were substantially cheaper than Izzy likely would have cost and II has a better resume of production than all of them.

    Don't get me wrong--I'm not an Emery hater at all. I generally like what he's done a lot (the BU thing wasn't handled well PR-wise but I admit it was the right move value-wise) and I understand he wants "his guys" to ultimately take over from the prior regime's favs. But, as it looks right now, letting Izzy walk was a "penny wise, pound foolish" decision that I bet Phil wishes he could have back. We do have a solid front 3 rotation at both the DT and DE positions but NOTHING behind that if/when the inevitable injury bug hits. For instance, what if it were the RS now and Wooton had to sit a game or two with his hip? Sure would be nice to have an Izzy there to fill in with little decline, wouldn't it? Same thing if Melton or Collins tweaked an ankle or something.

    Biggest personnel misfire this offseason looks like losing Izzy. Maybe we will get really lucky and Detroit will cut him and we can pick him back up for vet min...but I doubt that scenario will happen. If it does, get on the phone to his agent immediately, Phil, and eat some crow.
     
    #32
    • Like Like x 1
  3. JPosh2012

    JPosh2012 Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    77
    Ratings:
    +86 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    My big concern is the lack of the depth along the D-Line, yes it is time to give younger players the chance BUT depth along the D-Line is so important that we meed to have all the depth we can.
     
    #33
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Mr. Deliverance

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    109
    Ratings:
    +109 / 0 / -1
    ßearz ßuckz:
    Yea we talk about depth but the Bears DL starters don't miss much time. They don't have health concerns like our secondary did in the past. I think we're getting worried about nothing. McBride was a McWaste. Ellis was a turd. Izzy needed to go so the younger plays could get more snaps. It went the way it had to go. Time to see some fresh blood in there.
     
    #34
  5. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,726
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Ratings:
    +1,730 / 2 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    786ß
    No one is denying that the "young guys" are moving to the top of the depth chart (Peppers excepted). But the purpose of depth is DEPTH. Woot has been healthy 1 season of the last 3. Paea 1 of the last 2. Injuries happen...even to players who went previously uninjured. I could see your point if we had some promising young up-and-comers to fill those depth roles and were worthy of making the team. But we don't as of now. And the vets (note: VETS) Emery has signed like McBride, Ellis, and Anderson haven't done jack to fill those needs. All we have is CWashington (a raw 6th rounder who may/may even not make the team) and a bunch of udfas who are likely practice squad material only.

    Having Izzy as a 7th DL would still leave one spot open for a developmental prospect (prob Washington with maybe Minter to the PS). Izzy wouldn't be displacing a younger player from a spot of earned worth and he could have always been cut if he was.
     
    #35
  6. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler
    SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    1,508
    Ratings:
    +1,917 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    713ß
    Not even close to correct Ric. McBride and Ellis together were a replacement for Izzy because he couldn't find one guy with Izzy's abilities to play both DE and DT and pass rush. McBride may have been able to do both but now we'll never know will we? Sorry but letting him walk was not a bright move and every day that goes by is proving that. He wasn't even an expensive guy to re-sign but he probably felt on the basis of his play these last two years that he deserved a little more than the vet minimum from Emery and I don't disagree. He did.
     
    #36
  7. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler
    SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    1,508
    Ratings:
    +1,917 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    713ß
    Nonsense. Where did you get that idea from? Were you even watching games last year. By half way through the season Wootton was starting at LDE and Izzy was subbing for Melton at DT more than he was playing DE. That's were most of his sacks and a forced fumble came from. He wouldn't have started over Wootton this year either and being a utility lineman wouldn't have kept McClellin from playing this year anymore than it did last. They'll use him at both RDE and LDE in the rotation and when Pep moves to pass rush from DT.

    Quote; "The trouble with people is not that they don’t know but that they know so much that ain’t so".
     
    #37
  8. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler
    SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    1,508
    Ratings:
    +1,917 / 7 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    713ß
    You really need to look at the amount of snaps each lineman played last year and you also need to understand that the Bears use a 6 or 7 man rotation on their DLine because if you did you wouldn't have posted this. So while your thinking may apply to other teams it doesn't apply to this team at all.

    Last year we saw Pep, Wootton , Izzy, McClellin, Paea, Melton, and Collins (that's 7 if you're counting) all take snaps in that rotation on a regular basis and Pep, Izzy, McClellin, Wooton, and Collins all played at more than one position in that rotation. It's not about missing time or health concerns and it's the way that defense is run because it keeps the pass rusher fresh. In order to do that we need experienced depth.

    You know it's downright disturbing that you call yourself a Bears fan D yet you really don't understand as much about the team as like to profess. You pick comments like this out of the air because they fit you're thinking about the way YOU think it "should be" but it's not the way it actually "is". You make a whole lot of assumptions that aren't based in fact as it relates to the Bears.
     
    #38
  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka
    DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    23,082
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Ratings:
    +4,058 / 10 / -8
    ßearz ßuckz:
    2,315ß
    MP, lots to deal w/so i'm not quoting everything. I'm not defending anything. All offseason, and next year I expected huge turnover..primarily on D, so I although Izzy was one of the few D I wanted to get signed, I'm not surpised he wasn't.

    Let's say you're correct and Izzy wasn't going to be starting....then why not, as an FA go to a team where he can start...for the same money? Again people are assuming that Izzy wanted to come back and there is nothing to say he did....or didn't it's all speculation. But if you are a former starter and got replaced by younger talent why would either party want to stay together?

    The older vet guys were signed as guaranteed backups I'm not sure Izzy wanted that, Wootton/Shea need to be playing as the starters and Izzy is still capable of starting, so again why if you are in Izzy's spot stay in Chicago?
     
    #39
  10. MPbears68

    MPbears68 Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,726
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Ratings:
    +1,730 / 2 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    786ß
    Everything Izzy said and everything in his history indicated that he wasn't looking for a "fresh start" elsewhere. You're right that we can never know for sure what went on behind the scenes but the available evidence points to him wanting to stay in Chicago. Soul is probably right that Izzy wanted more than vet min and was worth more. Even in this down FA market, he was worth $1-1.5 mil IMHO on a single year deal. He's been durable, productive, a high-character locker room presence, and a guy who can stuff runs and get you 5 sacks even playing in hybrid DE/DT reserve role.

    I doubt Izzy turned down a decent offer from Emery with the response: "no thanks, I'd rather go to crappy, dysfunctional Detroit for $900k".

    I know GMs have to make tough calls and hold the line on overspending, but I'll bet if we could crawl inside Phil's brain right now, he wishes he had sweetened the pot for Izzy just a little more.
     
    #40

Share This Page

Copyright © DaBears.com. This site is a news, entertainment and information site covering the Chicago Bears and their fans.
DaBears.com is an independent fan site and not associated with the Chicago Bears, National Football League, or any other media site.
All content is provided by, and for, Bear fans. We invite your participation and suggestions.