UNFRIGGIN REAL NFL Fines Bostic

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Nakoma1, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,889
    Likes Received:
    400
    Ratings:
    +450 / 1 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    58ß
    When the angle was changed and you can see his head lead, I can understand a flag by the new rules, but the fine was ridiculous. These new rules ARE fundamentally changing the game esp. in bang, bang pass plays such as the hit we saw. There is no question in my mind that Bostic did not have intentions to hurt him. What he did do was separate the ball from the man, and that has been taught since the creation of this game. So yes, it is changing the way the game is played esp on the defensive side of the ball.

    I think intent needs to be seriously looked at when these game changing flags and fines are tossed around. Nobody wants to see players just headhunting out there and trying to bring careers to an early end, but when these plays are happening this fast what is a defender really supposed to do? What if that play was 4th and 2 in a playoff game? Is Bostic really expected to just let him make that catch and then tackle him (assuming that a last minute adjustment to avoid a BS flag dosent cause him to miss the tackle) This BS is changing the way the game is played, hence the inflation of offensive numbers in recent years. While I agree that nobody needs to be out there just to hurt people, nor should anyone try to hurt someone its the nature of the game that makes collisions like this unavoidable at some times. Things move extremely fast out there, and with guys playing at 100 mph we are going to see hits like this. No malicious intent, no flag/fine IMO.

    What we will see now is many more injuries similar to Keller. It is the only safe place to ensure you will not cost your team 15 yards, and is also a last second adjustment some players can make.

    Last, and most important point I wanted to throw out there is this has absolutely nothing to do with player safety IMO. If he really gave a damn about the concussions he would make mouthpieces mandatory, this is proven that it reduces the risk of concussions by 300-500 percent depending on the study you use. Why do you think Boxing, MMA, Hockey, HS football ect all require this? This has everything to do with stupida$* Goodell wanting to create a game with a ton of offense and not very much defense. This expands the fanbase as you can now appeal to the "casual" fan who will enjoy watching lots of open field running and "awesome scores" instead of the nitty gritty such as blocking and tackling. (how many times has he mentioned wanting a team in London........)
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Nakoma1

    Nakoma1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +183 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    im not into those who like swing whatever way the wind a blows 4Da ,...
    MY BAD Just didn't appreciated the thread getting hijacked when the guy doing such should have started his own thread taking his stance , Fans have issues with the way the leagues handled all of this

    Here there and everywhere mainly laying low
  3. Mr. Deliverance

    Mr. Deliverance Guest

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    109
    Ratings:
    +109 / 0 / -1
    ßearz ßuckz:
    Goodell has made a mess of defensive play. It baffles me that Bostic's hit would get a fine.
  4. short faced bear

    short faced bear Assistant Head Coach DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,340
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    Ratings:
    +1,196 / 0 / -2
    ßearz ßuckz:
    90ß
    I remember Warlock vs. some kid talking tech. in the old forum for about 30 pages. Ultimately none of us has any say nor power in the matter. If they really wanted to improve technique they could start fining them in college. But that might mess up their pay lol.
  5. Nakoma1

    Nakoma1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +183 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    +1 Grizzz
  6. Warlock

    Warlock Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    31ß
    The game isn't fundamentally changing... people still run, pass, catch, block and tackle... those are the fundamentals of the game. Do you coach your players to lead with the crown of their helmet? The rules change and techniques must adapt. Players shouldn't be leading with their heads to seperate the ball from the man any more, the new technique is to club the ball while wrapping up (using the much more effective break/club/wrap/drive technique). Not only is it much safer for both the ball-carrier and the tackler, but it results in less missed tackles because you're technically sound and balanced.

    If it was 4th and 2, the results would have been the same (no gain and loss of down)... Bostic makes contact with the receiver at the LoS. If he breaksdown instead, Willie gets stood up and driven back for no gain... instead of what should have been a 15 yard penalty.

    The speed of the NFL is fast and shit happens sometimes, but these athletes are so neuromuscularly conditioned that they shouldn't have to think about anything out there... it should all be reflex. Actions burned into the synapse thru countless repetition. It's time to change drills/techniques and adapt to the rules. On the bightside, these new rules are actually beneficial for the future of the game. By reducing the risk of both short term and long term injuries, you get more people participating in the sport and thus more fans of the game. Intent is a hard sale, it's as much a judgment call as whether or not a player is defenseless. We don't know what the player is thinking, we can only assume based on what we see.

    Mouthguards are great at reducing the risk of concussions, but are you honestly trying to imply that the new rules don't also reduce the risk of concussions?

    Look, we're all older guys here, people who played/watched when the game was more hard-nosed. We're also Bears fans, who admire some of the toughest sobs in the history of football (i.e. Butkus, Payton, etc...). It's a tough pill to swallow, watching things become "pussified", but it really is the best thing for the game. Life is hard enough and our bodies take enough of a beating, any reasonable thing to help reduce the unnecessary risks we take is a good thing. I can't say that the new rules are unreasonable...
  7. Tarkus

    Tarkus Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    266
    Ratings:
    +270 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    My biggest disappointment is not finding those refs who didn't call a Damn thing after the game & do some shots & beers.

    Now they know football...
    • Like Like x 1
  8. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    46,373
    Likes Received:
    1,676
    Ratings:
    +1,874 / 6 / -8
    ßearz ßuckz:
    855ß
    TECHNICALLY Bosic did lead with the crown if his helmet which was one of the natures of the fine. Even though he DID hit him with his shoulder, he did lead with the crown of the helmet.

    However the whole helpless receiver part is a crock. He had the ball and should have his head on a swivel. No WR who has possession of the ball should ever be considered "defenseless"
  9. 4dabers

    4dabers Veteran DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    598
    Ratings:
    +732 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    77ß
    Oh you can count on that brother. I'm going to take you for all the bear bucks you have. Oh, I guess I'm too late on that one, well, I'll find something else.

    Can we all just agree that the rules are changing, we have no say, it was a good "old fashioned" hit that was borderline in today's NFL and his fine will sting, but not like it would for you and me.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,889
    Likes Received:
    400
    Ratings:
    +450 / 1 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    58ß
    I understand Bostic certainly needs to keep his head up there is no argument there. The explanation the league gave was that it was a defenseless reciever. That tells me that there would have been a fine regardless of head position.

    My problems with this is that SD attempted a Flanker tunnel screen. Bostic diagnosed it, and got to the correct spot at full speed. There was a 2 step separation between him and the WR and DJ Fluker bearing down on Bostic. Bang bang play Willie was far from defenseless, yes Bostic needs to keep his head up but frankly I don't think it would matter because what I got out of the explanation from the league was that Bostic was guilty of hitting too hard.

    Warlock, no way I would tell a kid it's ok to lead with his head down. That is, and should be a penalty. My problem with this new trend is big collisions will always happen in this game. What is a defender susposed to do if he is playing at 100mph and is in Bostics shoes. It's nice to think that he could get the perfect shoulder to number, face mask on ball hit but the game moves too fast for that to ALWAYS work perfectly. I would say on Bostics play he could play that scenario out 10 times and prolly get fined or flagged 9 of them. The only way to ensure there is no consequences is to go low...ask Keller how much "better" that is.
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,075
    Likes Received:
    1,166
    Ratings:
    +1,549 / 5 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    745ß
    I agree with Gonzales... Given a choice, hit me in the head and not my knee.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  12. Warlock

    Warlock Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    31ß
    There was more than merely two options in that situation (i.e. spearing and torpedo'ing).

    Bostic was already low, so all he had to do was lead with his chin/chest... it still would have been a big collision, but the kinetic force would have been more spread out due to greater surface contact helping to disipate said energy... resulting in a far less brutal and dangerous hit.

    Bostic intentionally lowered his head, he was trying to blow up Willie. He had the opportunity to tackle properly there, he clearly lined that shot up and thus had time to use sound technique. Regardless of the wording/explanation used, the League wants to send a message... trying to blow up players is no longer acceptable. That old school intimidation tactic of blowing up receivers who go over the middle is dangerous and needs to stop IMHO. Sure, this change hurts defenses somewhat, but I'd rather see a little more offense than the sport slowly die (due to it being perceived as too dangerous by future players).
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Bearstuff

    Bearstuff Yes, in the woods. Staff Member SuperFan

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    29,607
    Likes Received:
    969
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 3 / -2
    ßearz ßuckz:
    484ß
    Actually Nak, he was a good member on the old site while you weren't around. Talked frequently about coaching HS ball. His post count is not yet adjusted, that's all.

    Plus, multiple log ins is the fastest way to being banned.
  14. Nakoma1

    Nakoma1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +183 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    BRSTFF ,...I found the timing odd,... ,...that is all ,.. it another piling on,.... 1st post,... yeah it was a reach ,... MY BAd said this already

    SOME NEED to leave the ashes of the CBMB lay

    AND Bears why should I have botherer to change my name whe mogging in on the new board ...?? jus saying ,..

    who else gives the Packer Craps as much crap as I do ,... it be figured out in a heartbeat
  15. Bearstuff

    Bearstuff Yes, in the woods. Staff Member SuperFan

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    29,607
    Likes Received:
    969
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 3 / -2
    ßearz ßuckz:
    484ß
    Oh, all good here Nak. You've never hidden from anyone. I'm just saying Warlock (and Riczaj) ain't hiding neither.
  16. Grizzblue

    Grizzblue Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,889
    Likes Received:
    400
    Ratings:
    +450 / 1 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    58ß

    It's just not that simple, in theory it sounds good but had he let up whatsoever it would have allowed for the OL to get there and run a risk of missing the tackle. Willie was not "defenseless" he took 2 steps and had his head around.

    Hopefully this was just "the perfect storm" and it was just so perfectly bad that there was no way around a fine other than to just let Willie go. Well see as we go if the league has finally crossed the line and is starting to change the game and put serious flaws on the defensive side. All I'm saying is if I'm Bostic and that happens again I'm prolly going low.
  17. Tarkus

    Tarkus Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    266
    Ratings:
    +270 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    This will forever be a vague rule...

    Anytime we see a bone crushing knockout hit like the ones we grew up on, there'll always be a 'compression point' where a helmet will hit a helmet, etc., even if it was a shoulder that started it.

    They're responding to anything that can incur a concussion so they're covered for down the road lawsuits. Just a sign of the times...
  18. Warlock

    Warlock Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    ßearz ßuckz:
    31ß
    It is that simple... all Bostic had to do was lead with his chin/chest, rather than the crown of his helmet. There's neglible slowdown involved (merely a bit more wind drag over a super short distance). He also had plenty of time to do so, since he had the time to lower his head. The tackle would have still been made, but due to a greater surface area in the collision, the hit would have been far less brutal and wouldn't have resulted in a fine (or penalty).
  19. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1,457
    Ratings:
    +1,844 / 6 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,537ß
    Might just as well copy into this one what I posted elsewhere. That fine is ridiculous! :mad:

    I think Bostic proved he's the guy at MLB with that one hit last week and the NFL should have their heads examined for fining him. To begin with the receiver actually had possession of the ball, tucked it under his left arm and took a step before Bostic nailed him. At that point he's a ball carrier and not a "defenseless player" and he's fair game. If they'd reviewed the play they'd also have seen that it was a fumble not an incompletion. Man I'm getting sick of the incompetence of the officiating and the NFL front office over this bullshit. IT'S NOT FLAG FOOTBALL! Players are gonna get nailed and players will be injured because it's a violent game and you can't legislate that away!

    Jeezus if Butkus would have played under these rules they only position he could have been used at would have been the holder for PKs and XPs and the half the 85 team would have been suspended or fined out of their game checks before they even got to the Super Bowl. This whole thing with Goodell is ridiculous. Bostic, the Bears and the NFLPA need to appeal that fine. I don't know how you lower a shoulder and separate a guy from the ball any better than that. It was a text book hit.
  20. soulman

    soulman Pro-Bowler SuperFan DBS Writer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1,457
    Ratings:
    +1,844 / 6 / -3
    ßearz ßuckz:
    1,537ß
    Bull shit Ric. The hit was made with his shoulder and THAT'S what popped the ball loose not his helmet!

    You physically can't make that tackle with your head up! Try it yourself. When you tuck your arm and lower your shoulder your head will automatically come down with it and any contact by Bostics helmet was with the side not the grill. It was incidental to the tackle and the point of impact was the shoulder. Watch the replay.

    This is the game has been played for decades and certain types of incidental contact can't be avoided. Maybe those making those rules should actually make physical attempts at doing what they're trying to eliminate. If there was no risk of head injuries there'd be no need for helmets and then it would be rugby and we'd have scrums like they did back in the '20s and '30s before the forward pass was allowed and plays were more than 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Is that what you want to bring back because that's where they're headed.

    You can't create rules that open the game up for more exciting big plays and scoring and at the same time limit what defenders can do so badly that they'll risk hurting themselves trying to play to cautiously tackling a 210-230 lb ball carrier moving at top speed. The issues of former players have nothing to do with how they tackled and it doesn't even belong in your post. You need to read what their lawsuit is about before you draw that inference. It has nothing to do with the NFL not protecting them with rule changes like this.

Share This Page