What happened to our playmakers on defense? Is this coaching or talent?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Aug 16, 2014.

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What is wrong with this D?

  1. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    That's all I wanted, if we could have had that last year we could have had a a chance to face Seattle.
  2. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    I think the D was slightly better then that last year, but Melton/Briggs/Tillman/Collins all went down and Peppers/Paea were playing hurt(pep just might be old) and Shea was actually in the starting lineup as DE b/c Wooton had to play DT. The D went from above average to awful b/c of the injuries. That's why I'm not worried about this year, I don't have any doubt they can play AVERAGE in today's NFL. I do have concerns about the LB's and S's, but we aren't seeing the starters play in PS at those 2 positions so we're just going to have to trust the coaches until we see what the D really looks like.
  3. The Benjamin

    The Benjamin George Halas Staff Member

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    They were talking on the radio the other day, sounded like they were saying the Bears don't really scheme their defense for other teams in the preseason like they would in the regular season. That they don't study film and game plan differently based on what an offense would do, just going through the motions getting into game play mode.

    That's not a word for word re telling of what I heard, but pretty much sums things up. I think ZZ mentioned that.
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  4. Bear_40

    Bear_40 Rookie

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    Sucks at that too.
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  5. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    yeah, pretty standard for the preseason. Teams just looking at technique, improvement, footballs smarts, ability to beat out their man (whether a CB, WR, DL, OL, etc).
  6. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Solid post ric.
  7. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    The D has to be good enough to allow us to win. It's that simple. If we're expecting to be champions then yes, we need to beat teams like the Packers. It's that simple. Yes we need to be able to beat GOOD teams too, and that will take a decent defense (teams like San Francisco and Seattle and yes Payton Manning's Broncos) - if - we expect to be champions. This is how Seattle does it anyway.

    Now, if the expectation is to be what we are, a middle of the road team that sucks hind tit to the Packers in our own division, then it doesn't matter what we do on defense - or offense for that matter.

    But if the expectation is to be a championship team, like the one we'll face on Friday, then yes, the D has to be better than what we have so far. That's my 2-cents worth anyway. We used to have this same discussion when Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo were here - but then it was about the offense.
  8. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    JABF, to be fair (I have not been impressed by what I have seen thus far on defense either -- especially given the talent), I want to stay optimistic and say "the D has to be better than what we have so far" yet!

    There are also enough things I am reading that lead me to believe that progression is still being seen. I am not impressed thus far, but it's far from over. Only two preseason games so far.
  9. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    I understand that we're a work in progress on defense. The starters have 1 more preseason game to be ready for prime time (the starters won't get much playing in that 4th PS game) so it's not over yet. I don't expect anything near perfection at this point, but I did expect to see something better than what we have - even in preseason. Can the defense get better? Sure. Can it get to where we can beat Aaron Rodgers and the Packers and be division champions again? I'm not sure. Can it get to where we are a relevant team again, one that can win a Super Bowl (a powerhouse team like Seattle)? Man, we have a LONG ways to go for that.

    But can we continue to beat bad teams? Yes. Our offense alone can do this. But we are not going to ride Jay's arm (alone without a decent D) to any super bowls here in Chicago. I know the Bears have pumped considerable resources into the defense this past year and that's as it should be. Now let's see what Tucker can do with those resources. So far he hasn't shown much. But we do have 1 more game with the D starters to show some growth. Let's see what we do against Seattle on Friday. We'll know more then if we're the real deal this season, or in for another 8-8 type year.
  10. Ski-Whiz

    Ski-Whiz George Halas Staff Member

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    so why did Denver and Miami trade Marshall?

    what makes our line different today than when lovie was here?
    coaches maybe?
  11. Ski-Whiz

    Ski-Whiz George Halas Staff Member

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    its funny because he sucked in Jacksonville. If he defense was so dominating, how come his defensive players got changed out? How come he left Jacksonville? If he was this great coach why didn't he get retained after del Rio got canned?

    he sucked. I don't care about stats. That's paper racing. Did their defense win games like the bears during Lovie?
  12. DavidL

    DavidL Pro-Bowler SuperFan

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    I agree with most of this. The Bears averaged 7th best defense in the NFL from 2008-2012, according to your numbers. Match Lovie's defense over that span with the current Bears offense, and we are Super Bowl level team. We have about two more years to get there before this offense starts to lose some key players to FA or age.
  13. DaTreeBears

    DaTreeBears Pro-Bowler

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    I can tell you this about the Bears we have more depth than the pac take that to the bank.
  14. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    It's about expectations. Really. Is the expectation set low and we're okay with what we're seeing? Or is the expectation to be a champion again? If the bar is set low then it's all happy talk and we can cue up the excuses and it's all "good" when we lose to Aaron Rodger's Packers and the better teams. We'll get a glimpse of how far we need to improve when we meet Seattle Friday.

    What I'm seeing here are similar excuses like we all trotted out in the Lovie Smith years. Only then the excuses were about the offense. We'd say J'Marcus Webb was improving, Gabe Carimi was going to be okay just give him more time, Chris Williams was going to be okay at the new position, Hester was going to be fine as our #1 wide receiver (didn't he look a bit better last Sunday) and on and on and on. It was always going to be okay because of ______________ just fill in the blank. Only now it's the defense we make excuses for. McClellan is looking better, he'll be okay. It's just preseason. Injuries. Whatever. Just trot out another excuse.

    It's just the defense now instead of the Lovie offense. It's expectation control. Set the bar low enough and we all feel better about sucking for another week.
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  15. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Did his Def have players anywhere near on par as Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, Jennings, Peppers, Harris, Melton, Brown?

    Btw, he did get retained after Del Rio was canned. That was the 1 year he was allowed to call his own def, and it was why he was considered(and still is) an eventual head coach.
  16. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Sometimes I think it's a "Chicago thing" when we accept mediocrity. As a Cubs and Bears fan I understand the mentality. We can rationalize anything. Dream up excuses for anything. Trot out stats to prove anything. And the years of mediocrity roll on by.

    Now, I'm not wanting to get over-the-top about the defensive woes. Not yet. But I'm also not blindly thinking it's all okay this year on defense. This defense has a long ways to go. Can they be decent? I don't know. I do know I'm gonna be really sad if this D isn't significantly (significantly) better this year. Jay's arm alone isn't going to get us to the promised land. We do need some help from the defense if we expect to be champions - like Seattle. I'm not curious about stats anymore. My own eyes can SEE what we have out there on D.

    Hey, how about dem Cubs?
  17. Ski-Whiz

    Ski-Whiz George Halas Staff Member

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    Exactly. This is Lovie, but with the defense.

    Funny thing, the Packers won the division with injuries!! So can you blame injuries?

    Everyone wants to look at stats. How about just looking at the film, and take the emotion from that film, and make your decision. I for one am embarrassed at how BAD our defensive side looked last year.

    We have two weeks to put something together, but so far it's the same signs as last year. Big open WRs and wide open holes for RBs.

    If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's certain a duck.
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  18. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    yeah... me too. I think many feel that way, and that has probably been the basis of why there are so many threads on these topics.
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  19. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Lovie had close to 10 years of excuses, People in this thread aren't willing to give Tucker 1 and his is legit, and he has a fraction of the say in his personnel. Tucker also had 1 year of one of the worst hit injury bugs of any team losing FAR to many key players to injury to give any real credit for or against and the most he gets is, last year is a N/A, hardly a vote of confidence, unlike what most gave Lovie.

    Emery/Trestman/Tucker/Kromer are having to completely tear down a decades worth of poor drafting and coaching, and yet people expect 2 years in a top 10 O and D and make a run at the Packers who are in the top 1/3 of the league in most years; those are absurd expectations for a new staff. And again, lets not act like Lovie(a D boy) was even giving us top tier D's anymore, so why the hell are we expecting Trestman and his staff to 2 years into their tenure?

    Not one person said Hester was going to be fine as a #1 WR; lets not get brain dead here. Only yaghs are saying Shea is looking better, he's not he's nothing special he's a bust it happens. It is in fact only pre season hate to break the news to you, but it doesn't count, they aren't playing to stop or win, they aren't game planning; especially in the first 2 games of it. Stop acting like the Bears should be on the same page as the Seahags or the 49rs or Balt, they aren't there yet, nor should they be, those teams have a 2-3 year head start.

    Is the expectations 2 years into a HC's reign of a poorly run franchise a SB? Is that your expectation? B/c it's not mine, I expect to see vast improvements in FA, Draft and overall play in the first 2 years. After that I expect to see improvements in the depth of the team and their ability to consistently compete w/the top teams when they face them and make runs in the playoffs year in year out. And imo I think this team could have made that run last year but you don't lose every key starter on 1 side of the ball and make a run in the playoffs, especially when you lose your key starter on the other side to boot. And honestly I cannot see how this team isn't in contention of a playoff spot this year, in all honesty I think this team is a good 2-3 years ahead of schedule, but that shouldn't be the expectation, those are stretch goals.
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  20. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    quick w/out looking them up, what injuries did the Packers have to their starting line up! Go!!!!!

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