What happened to our playmakers on defense? Is this coaching or talent?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by JustAnotherBearsFan99, Aug 16, 2014.

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What is wrong with this D?

  1. Ski-Whiz

    Ski-Whiz George Halas Staff Member

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    Did the Jags have anywhere near the opponents the Bears had?

    Tucker hasn't been at a job longer than three years. His only NFL experience was in Cleveland and Jacksonville. He was with the Browns for three years. If he was so magical, why didn't they keep him when their HC was fired?
    I can raise the same question about him in Jacksonville.

    We can talk stats all day long, but I have watched the Jags play since moving here in 2004. Don't believe my opinion.

    During Tucker in Jax, one can argue that their defense should have been better since the HC was Del Rio (Defensive minded). You may have noticed but Jack Del Rio is the DC for Denver. Say what you will, but will you say Jack had nothing to do with the success of Denver since it's his first year?

    I'll keep saying it until Tucker is fired, he sucks. His resume sucks.

    Maybe I should put it this way. Tucker is NOT capable of leading a Bears defense. He may be good in Cleveland, but this is the Bears.
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  2. Ski-Whiz

    Ski-Whiz George Halas Staff Member

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    I'm talking injuries as a team.

    My offensive line statement was talking about through the years. I can't remember what year it was but they had no starters from their last season. Yeah, they won the division, and had an impressive offense.
  3. tbear1

    tbear1 Veteran

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    I will add this one to the excuse list. The problem with the logic is that the offense was all new last year but they pulled off a top half of the league for points and yards (top 10 in fact).
  4. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    BIH, I've been very positive up to this point about the D and this team. But I'm beginning (just beginning) to see some danger signs of another mediocre year (with the defense not the offense). The old excuses don't work so well for me anymore (heaven knows I've heard them enough to be sick of them). I'm an old man. I know what preseason is - and isn't. It doesn't resonate so well with me when someone just says "it's just preseason" or whatever the excuse de jour is. I watch the players execute plays and I can see with my own eyes what the situation is. That's why I'm a lunatic and go to training camp and do crazy stuff like isolate on Shea McClellan (in past years it was guys like J'Marcus Webb, Carimi, C.Will etc).

    The old smoke blown up my butt doesn't have the same effect anymore. It's like that old kids story about how the emperor has no clothes. I feel like that little boy pointing that he just doesn't see it. I'm not seeing it with this D. Not yet anyway.
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  5. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Ric, everyone has his thoughts on this one, and I'm not going to say mine are right, but I'll still give my reasons for why I gave Lovie more string than Tucker.

    Lovie was sneaky in the kind of way, that he was not overtly inept. He was actually pretty decent. Just not what I would consider really good. He never fell flat on his face and put out a poor product. We were always competitive enough not to have sucked, but never good enough to be considered one of the better teams.

    IMO, Tucker DID fall flat on his face. I don't want to resurrect the arguments about injuries or his players never improving, etc. We all know both sides of the argument, but in a nutsehell, Lovie never took a top rated anything and brought it to the basement. He actually made us better when he got here and I think that is why lovie had his proponents and could never get a consensus on his being weak. In the end, I still think Lovie would be here if it would not have been for Geirge. George was the one that finally cried BS and placed a competent GM in here and brought about a change in expectations for the team.

    So right or wrong, you have my thoughts.
  6. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    One could guess that the Bears D would be better under Lovie(def minded coach) but you'd be mistaken considering how often it was middle or lower in the pack. And Lovie had Pro Bowlers at all 3 levels of the field.

    Bellechick's resume sucked; until it didn't. Sean Peyton's resume sucked; until it didn't.

    I'm sorry, name the amount of SB's won both Cleveland and the Bears....and now tell me how Cleveland is so much different then Chicago. And your opinion is a minority opinion in the NFL, b/c Tucker is on a fast track to being a HC, not just a DC for Chicago or anywhere else; had he not chosen to be a DC for Trestman, he might well be a HC now.
  7. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    We are in complete agreement. I am not panicked by any stretch. I am just starting to see signs (like you) that I am not comfortable with and this is a forum for discussion. Anyone that perceives that discussion to be panic should pull their panties down a little. I have not really seen too much of that , but there is always one or two that are more intolerant than most in terms of opposing opinions. In general, this board is quite aware, and I don't think perceive anyone ready to jump off a bridge.
  8. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Wait was the expectation to be sneaky and not fail; or to win SB's b/c I thought this thread was how the Bears expectations were to win SB's.....Again go back and actually look at how bad the Bears D was in most years considering that is where all the resources went it was damn near a complete failure, if Lovie and Angelo had ever put anything into the O at all then it would be okay to be middle of the pack some years on D, but instead Lovie was getting all the resources put into his D and STILL being middle of the pack most years.

    So again it's Tuckers falt last year that EVERY key player on D got hurt? No, sorry proven wrong time and again.
  9. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    see my reply above, I'm still waiting on someone to name the GB injuries to key starters......
  10. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Ric, I see your points. And believe me I hope you are right and I am wrong. Seriously. Those 10 years of excuses came from me too. I rationalized every failed year. It's just that now, I'm an old man who wants to see us be champions again. I may not even be alive in 10 years. I want to see the Cubs and Bears win. That's all. I just want to win. Right now I'm not out on the ledge. Yet. But I'm seeing stuff that worries me with this D. I'm eyeing the ledge. Not ready to open the window and walk out to it yet. Just thinking this could be another mediocre year if we expect to ride Jay's arm to a super bowl. And a Super Bowl win is what I ultimately want to see. I'm tired of looking up at Green Bay's backside every year in this division. It's getting old - like me :-)
  11. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Perhaps, and I wish him the very best. I would wholeheartedly recommend him for an immediate promotion to HC to any of the other 31 other franchises. Preferably one in our division.
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  12. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    come on Ric... you're better than that...
  13. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    No I'm really not :) and I'm still waiting for all you "the packers had injuries too" crowd to name all the key starters they lost
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  14. butkus3595

    butkus3595 Pro-Bowler

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    Did we, or did we not go 1-1 and almost 2-0 against the packers with the worst defense in the league?
  15. tbear1

    tbear1 Veteran

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    Ric, How long did it take you to type this? You had to be laughing uncontrollably in between each key stroke. I thank you sir for such a great humor break. This thread was getting way too serious. +1 to you sir.
  16. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    ok, I had to chuckle at that one.
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  17. B-ell-y-iot

    B-ell-y-iot Veteran SuperFan

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    I think it's important to establish criteria for this kind of eval. We can replay last yea a million times and assign blame to coaches, injuries, personnel, motivation, weather, schedule, or anything else. Last year is dead. Tucker, rightly or wrongly has an X on his chest.

    What does he need to do this year to prove he doesn't suck? What's your criteria for a DC sucking vs not sucking?
    Is it a statistical number?
    Is it the number of games the team wins?
    Is it playoff appearance devoid of stats?
    Is it Superbowl appearance with stats?
    What would redeem Tucker in your mind, or maybe, if we're trying to be objective, what in general do you expect from a D coordinator? What will prevent you from calling him names and demanding a pink slip?

    What role does Trestman play in all of this and how are you, as a fan, keeping him accountable?
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  18. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    And I didn't give Lovie a inch, and batted down all the excuses people made for him. I wanted him gone 2 years after the SB when he couldn't figure out the O and the D was starting to fall apart. And yet here I am now telling people it's to early to tell.

    So take a deep breath, pull up the Packers roster from last year and start naming their key starters that were injured last year....trust me it's not a long list it shouldn't take long.
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  19. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    One way to put it. I would have phrased it as "1-1 and almost 2-0 against the packers with the second best offense in the league. Held back only because of having the second worst defense in the league."
    Both are correct. Both emphasize different viewpoints. It always goes back to figures can lie. It depends on the interpretation.
  20. Bearsinhouston

    Bearsinhouston Position Coach

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    Hey is it our fault that's all you had to give him? LOL
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014

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