What if Lovie had hired Trestman in 2004?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Henry Burris, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    We can see from his coaching ability, 5 games in, he can get more out of an offense than any other coordinator, so what do you guys think would have happened had Lovie gone with him over Shea?
  2. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Personally, I'd imagine that if Rex continued to get injured, and Orton was the starter, the coaching staff would have been quicker to get "their own guy", which means Grossman would've had a significantly shorter leash. Of course I'm just guessing here, but I think we would've drafted another QB between 2005 (which might be a bit much, considering he didn't start his first year, and his second year was missed to injury) and 2007. I just don't see Trestman as being able to coach Grossman into a good player, and he'd probably want someone around that could save his job. So, I think the Bears probably would've ended up drafting Joe Flacco once Grossman had proven himself unable to play.
  3. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    not sure Orton would have been as bad as he was here, he might have been a boarderline starter/tweener and they might have drafted someone just 2-3 years ago. Orton is smart enough, and takes care of the ball, so the idea of a quick striking WCO that requires low risk plays might well have been in his wheelhouse. I don't think we trade for Cutler though; maybe we do and don't have to give up quite as much.

    Regardless I still doubt Lovie allows JA to draft enough O to fix the problem and quite frankly I think all are fired by the new GM(Emery or otherwise).
  4. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Agree on not trading for Cutler, but about the offense, Lovie did allow Martz to pick his guys. I just think this whole team would've been significantly better, and with Orton at the helm, might have won in 2006. I just don't think he'd ever show enough to be the starter to a good coordinator.
  5. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Oh he'd not be the long term answer no, but I think he'd have showed enough for a WCO guy that had the right weapons to be the guy until they drafted one; I also think they probably draft Flacco or someone like that to replace him early in the draft b/c of Trestman. And ya he let Martz get his guys, but all in FA, how many Martz guys were drafted; LATE round picks like Lefevor/Enderle and Webb no even Trestman isn't going to get the right guys like that? Also I doubt we let go of Greg Olsen, and I think he would have showed better here.
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  6. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    2005 would have been a better year for Trestman to have arrived. Shea, for all his awful coordinating and his gigantic playbook, managed to ask for some decent FA talent in Thomas Jones, John Tait, and Rueben Brown. Plus we'd have had the #4 overall pick in the draft, and instead of that idiot Ron Turner requesting a North South runner in Benson , he might have thought to take Rodgers that year instead. Thus, the Grossman Orton Wars would never have been fought.
  7. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    Nope no team in the 05 draft was going to take a qb in the top 5 b/c there was no qb that was viewed as worthy of the #5 overall pick in the 05 draft. Not to mention JA had just drafted a qb in the 1st 2 years earlier and didn't know what he had in him b/c of inj's. Chances are they still take a high ceiling rb at #4.
  8. Rogelio

    Rogelio Veteran

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    Nobody asked to take Benson. We got stuck with Benson because nobody wanted to trade for the pick, and he was the best offensive player available at that spot (who was rated to go that high). It obviously sucks that we didn't draft Rodgers, but a lot of teams missed on him. His stock plummeted from the #1 pick to the #24 pick. And realistically, if he was drafted by the Bears, coached by Turner and throwing to Moose and Bernard Berrien, be would have probably been on his third team by the time we traded for Culter and out of the league by now. Having good coaching with an actual system is huge for young quarterbacks. It also helped that he learned behind Favre (including learning what not to do).
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  9. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    It was strictly Angelo, and honestly the salaries rookies were making back then made it prohibitive to teams trading up, that NO ONE would deal with him. Plus, Angelo isn't going to get rid of his franchise QB after being injured all year, so even if he DID draft someone else, it would've been a DeMarcus Ware (he would've fit the system as a DE), or some garbage player. This whole Benson/TJ situation is one where Angelo deserves NO blame. He didn't want Benson, but had to get him, and TJ makes it an issue of pride that they'd take another RB, and add in that the guys(Urlacher and company) went out of their way to make things difficult for him, you had 2 pissed off runningbacks with great talent. THAT is strictly on Lovie Smith for not getting a better control on his locker room, if we're gonna blame anyone besides Thomas Jones.
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  10. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    TJ and Benson were both the issues in that, Benson got drafted and held out way to long, and it although it's his right, it made it even more difficult for him to come in on a good note. TJ did hiim no favors by not welcoming him in and had the lockerroom completley split against Benson from day 1. Lovie and his staff never got control of the situation, and JA had to give TJ the right to leave promising no FA tag to keep him.

    If those two would have gotten along, or at least has a healthy rivalry the team would have been better off for it.
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  11. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Typically, when you sign a new offensive coordinator or head coach, there is a bit of a "honeymoon" if you will. The GM makes promises to the coordinator that they will get the pieces they need. Emery probably told that to Kromer, and now Bushrod is a Bear. Stuff like that.

    Shea deliberately targeted Tait as a must have, because he needed two LT caliber players for his scheme to work. He also targeted Thomas Jones, saying he needed a versatile RB. Ruben Brown was just a Bobby DePaul pro personnel move that worked out in our favor, so maybe Shea doesn't get credit for bringing him in. And he did bring in Jon Quinn to be the backup that best knew his system, which meant he did not know how to judge QBs at all.

    How the heck is drafting Benson not Angelo's fault? He did it to make Ron Turner happy, but he could have easily told him "No, use TJ and our AP,". And why did he HAVE to draft him? We had plenty of needs at OL and WR.

    I don't blame Thomas Jones for being anything but awesome on this team, and sorely missed when traded. Benson was the wrong addition at the time, and it seemed he was determined to make life difficult for himself here. JA should have drafted a RB that knew how to share carries, like Cadillac.
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  12. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    You slightly misinterpreted what I said. Angelo did not want that spot. He wanted to draft later. However, he was stuck with the best prospect, and took him. Sure, we could've reached for Jamal Brown or Roddy White, but Jamal was the ONLY decent tackle, and Roddy White was the only decent WR to come out of that draft. Roddy White wasn't even the highest WR picked, so it's doubtful he would have gone for him, anyway. Now, I'm basically saying, on that front, that Angelo really didn't have a choice, and the players he was probably targeting were mid to late round picks. What I am absolutely absolving him from is TJ's crybaby fit over a 4th overall pick getting paid more than him. Lovie's locker room, as has been proven over and over since then, was not entirely a friendly one, and Benson said he "never felt at home there" (I'm paraphrasing). With both RB's being a headache, he was forced to get rid of Thomas Jones the following year. That's ALL on the players and coaching staff.
  13. JustAnotherBearsFan99

    JustAnotherBearsFan99 Coordinator SuperFan DBS Writer

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    Benson was a nut case from day one. TJ was a class act. Nobody did anything to divide the locker room against Benson. Players saw Benson for what he was and had a low regard for him. Benson was an ass. He was a huge mistake. We ended up getting nothing for him. Fourth overall pick of the draft. Nothing.
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  14. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    That offense could've been beastly had TJ swallowed his damn pride and try to win Chicago another championship. God, we could've drafted a WR sooner.
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  15. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    that is 1000% untrue. It was widely reported that TJ split that locker room and did everything he could to make Benson miserable. Nothing TJ ever did was "class". He was a bigger douche then Benson was, which is why he forced himself out of the one team that actually wanted him when he got into FA.
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  16. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Part of the reason he was available for cheap from Arizona was because he was a bit of a ****. I'm also a Jets fan, and TJ wasn't exactly a "class act" there, either. He threw Favre under the bus IN SEASON there. Honestly, "Lovies guys" come across more as punks, the more you hear about them.
  17. riczaj01

    riczaj01 DaBears Ditka DBS Writer

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    TJ was a VERY poor mans Emmitt Smith, he got the great fortune of running behind stud OL's w/shitty QB's(minus Fav-rah, although he was hardly in HoF form in NYJ's), so the game was always centered around getting him the ball. He was a good RB, but chi fans highly over rate him. The lone bright spot in that fiasco is it led to the Bears getting Forte who's 10x's the RB either of them are.
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  18. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Are you kidding me? Farve was hurting their team by continuing to play with an injured shoulder. He did not even share the same locker room with the rest of the Jets. TJ spoke out about Farve because he was hurting their team. The Jets took out a full page ad when he left to say good bye to the guy.

    I can see that you and Ric were fans of Benson. But both the Bears players after TJ was traded and the Jets players after he was cut before his last year publicly were very vocal about being unhappy he was leaving. The guy was a tough SOB, and when he was traded from the Bears one of the GMs in our division was so happy he told a reporter exactly that.

    There was no crying when Benson has left any of his former teams. It's because he was Ron Dayne 2.0, a product of his college offensive line.
  19. weneedmorelinemen

    weneedmorelinemen Veteran

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    Are you joking? Arizona sucked balls. We had a bunch of stiffs in 2004 on the line and at QB, and he still managed to get over 1300 total yards of offense that year. Benson, in 2007, couldn't even be bothered to learn the blocking scheme after being on the team for two years before his annual injury.

    The Jets had a good line, and TJ rewarded them with multiple 1000 yard seasons and was a starter in the Pro Bowl for the AFC one of those years. Look, both Benson and Jones were journeymen RBs, but TJ put up twice the numbers of Benson in his career.
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  20. Henry Burris

    Henry Burris Head Coach

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    Doesn't matter. You're trying to excuse bad behavior with bad behavior. That isn't a logical argument.

    It's good to see you missed the point, but carry on.

    So what? TJ was the one forcing Angelo's hand. He got the best deal he could out of him.

    There was no crying, because he didn't properly acclimate himself in with the holdout, and the team didn't try to offer an olive branch, either. Oh, and he had 3 pretty good seasons after he left Chicago. Remember his 37 rushes for 181 yards against the Bears?

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